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Thread: [Bard] How to make the Bard more viable through increasing SYNERGY with other souls.

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    Rift Disciple
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    Lightbulb [Bard] How to make the Bard more viable through increasing SYNERGY with other souls.

    Some suggestions that would greatly help out bards through synergy with other souls:

    1. Allow Cadence to be considered a range weapon attack (Ranger / Marksman / Assassin / Nightblade).

    2. Allow Cruel Vengeance (Assassin) to increase your damage and healing by 2/4/6/8/10% for 10 seconds.

    3. Allow Coup De Grace (Nightblade) to increase damage and healing of your finishers by 3/6/9/12/15%.

    4. Allow Heat Retention (Nightblade) to increase damage and healing of the next Finisher by 30%.

    5. Allow Melted Skin (Nightblade) to increase your damage and healing by 5% for the next 10 seconds.

    This has nothing to do with synergy, but it would save my sanity:

    6. Change Cadence such that pressing Cadence again while it is channeling will NOT cancel the current channeling of Cadence to start a new channeling of Cadence.

    Oh hell, why I am at it ... here is my suggestion for the actual bard soul:

    7. Remove Motif of Encouragement. Move Fanfare of Knowledge to 36, Verse of Vitality to 40, Verse of Joy to 44, and add a new 51 point ability that is a channeled AE heal that requires no target, removes 1 negative effect per tic of the channel, and effects up to 10 party and raid members.

    8. Reduce the cooldown on Verse of Vitality to 30 seconds (but if you made it 25s I wouldn't mind) and allow it to refresh all motif durations.
    Characters: Taldren, Sohwyn, Mythander, Paldren.
    RIFT (Sunrest) - Guardian - Irony || WAR (PT/Gorfang) - Alliance - Irony
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taldren View Post
    Some suggestions that would greatly help out bards through synergy with other souls:

    1. Allow Cadence to be considered a range weapon attack (Ranger / Marksman / Assassin / Nightblade).

    2. Allow Cruel Vengeance (Assassin) to increase your damage and healing by 2/4/6/8/10% for 10 seconds.

    3. Allow Coup De Grace (Nightblade) to increase damage and healing of your finishers by 3/6/9/12/15%.

    4. Allow Heat Retention (Nightblade) to increase damage and healing of the next Finisher by 30%.

    5. Allow Melted Skin (Nightblade) to increase your damage and healing by 5% for the next 10 seconds.

    This has nothing to do with synergy, but it would save my sanity:

    6. Change Cadence such that pressing Cadence again while it is channeling will NOT cancel the current channeling of Cadence to start a new channeling of Cadence.

    Oh hell, why I am at it ... here is my suggestion for the actual bard soul:

    7. Remove Motif of Encouragement. Move Fanfare of Knowledge to 36, Verse of Vitality to 40, Verse of Joy to 44, and add a new 51 point ability that is a channeled AE heal that requires no target, removes 1 negative effect per tic of the channel, and effects up to 10 party and raid members.

    8. Reduce the cooldown on Verse of Vitality to 30 seconds (but if you made it 25s I wouldn't mind) and allow it to refresh all motif durations.
    Let me remind you that bard is a SUPPORT class. It's main objective is not to HEAL or DPS. But to SUPPORT a group or setting. Please look ever the class again and understand the mechanics for a SUPPORT. Also, when you do more damage with Cadence, it also increases healing. So if you were wanting to heal more, find talents that increase damage. Don't expect much though. Cadence is also considered as life damage. So abilitys that increase non Physical attacks such as some in Nightblade are also usefull.
    Last edited by Lord Loroes; 04-05-2011 at 07:21 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Archon is also a SUPPORT class. With the right spec, they can provide their SUPPORT while doing very respectable dps and providing excellent healing at the same time. Bards cannot. The OP is pointing out a few suggestions to help with this. Given the capabilities of other SUPPORT specs in Rift, his seuggestions are very conservative ones, and would not likely by themeselves bring the Bard up to the level of the Mage's SUPPORT spec.

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    Also, either add some form of scaling to our Support / Healing codas OR if scaling already exists, please message it better.
    "FOR TOMORROW!"
    Dynar - Kelari Rogue - Shadefallen

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    Rift Disciple Kerosive's Avatar
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    Once again, Bard is a support class. You have amazing heals for a SUPPORT healer and you also help the entire party do more DPS, have more health, and heal for more. So please enlighten me again....whats the problem? One of my guildies is a awesome Bard (IMO and a few others) and no one EVER expected him to do damage. Keep up your Motif's give a few support heals and for some situational events throw up your better buffs for certain attacks. Your whole purpose is to make the entire party better. If you can do that what makes having high DPS as well even close to balanced?
    Last edited by Kerosive; 04-05-2011 at 10:49 AM.

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    Shadowlander Kodra's Avatar
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    Because 250 DPS is crazy high damage output.
    "FOR TOMORROW!"
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog01 View Post
    Archon is also a SUPPORT class. With the right spec, they can provide their SUPPORT while doing very respectable dps and providing excellent healing at the same time. Bards cannot. The OP is pointing out a few suggestions to help with this. Given the capabilities of other SUPPORT specs in Rift, his seuggestions are very conservative ones, and would not likely by themeselves bring the Bard up to the level of the Mage's SUPPORT spec.
    Lol.

    Archons don't heal.

    Bard is fine.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander Kodra's Avatar
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    Archons don't heal, and they sure as hell can't have a secondary healing spec, otherwise these arguments would stop making sense.
    "FOR TOMORROW!"
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    Champion Red Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Loroes View Post
    Let me remind you that bard is a SUPPORT class. It's main objective is not to HEAL or DPS. But to SUPPORT a group or setting. Please look ever the class again and understand the mechanics for a SUPPORT. Also, when you do more damage with Cadence, it also increases healing. So if you were wanting to heal more, find talents that increase damage. Don't expect much though. Cadence is also considered as life damage. So abilitys that increase non Physical attacks such as some in Nightblade are also usefull.
    In other words bard is a motif bot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dink View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    go play a fps pvp in mmorpgs did nothing but bring out the worst in the cummunity
    In one post, you've managed to bring out the worst in capitalization, punctuation and spelling.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Kodra's Avatar
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    You know what is an awesome spec? 51 points Archon, because it's totally worth it to sink 51 points into that spec, and put the other 15 into some DPS tree to boost the effectiveness of what an Archon does.

    Because Bard rogues are basically required to do that. It's not like either the Bard or the Archon have any tree that really effectively supports them, but doing pure support is so darn effective, why would they need it?
    "FOR TOMORROW!"
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlorohealz View Post
    Once again, Bard is a support class. You have amazing heals for a SUPPORT healer and you also help the entire party do more DPS, have more health, and heal for more. So please enlighten me again....whats the problem? One of my guildies is a awesome Bard (IMO and a few others) and no one EVER expected him to do damage. Keep up your Motif's give a few support heals and for some situational events throw up your better buffs for certain attacks. Your whole purpose is to make the entire party better. If you can do that what makes having high DPS as well even close to balanced?
    Do you even know what support is? You sound like those guys in Idiocracy talking about Brawndo, "because its got electrolytes". Healing is support. You look at any other MMO out there and ALL healers are support classes. seperating Healing from support is like seperating sound from an orchestra. It may not be all that is going on, but its a damn important part.
    Characters: Taldren, Sohwyn, Mythander, Paldren.
    RIFT (Sunrest) - Guardian - Irony || WAR (PT/Gorfang) - Alliance - Irony
    WoW (Azgalor/MT) - Order - Ravens || DAoC (Percival) - Hibernia - Ravens of the Veil

  12. #12
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    LOL at the people that said "support" class, not a healer.


    Half our talents help our healing out. WHich sucks, because I dont' want the bard to be the worst healer in the game. I dont' want it to be a healer at all.

    But this game has no idea of support. In this game, that means a few buffs that only marginally help the team. SO bards become a heal spaming buff bot.


    A rather more engaging support roll would be (reduce healing/ damage). Take away all CC from classes (except maybe snare for melee/casters).

    Let support classes have stuns/mez/roots. Make them a tad far into the line 25 - 34 ish. They could also get aoe cleanses (for snares/roots etc). Let the melee dps do the damage, the healers heal, the support actually help control the battlefield.

    Too much support = not enough damage.
    To much healing = support can shut them down
    too much dps = not enough support / healing..


    I think this would work well.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taldren View Post
    Do you even know what support is? You sound like those guys in Idiocracy talking about Brawndo, "because its got electrolytes". Healing is support. You look at any other MMO out there and ALL healers are support classes. seperating Healing from support is like seperating sound from an orchestra. It may not be all that is going on, but its a damn important part.
    In this game, maybe. But I can mention a few other games who'se support classes aren't restricted to AOE hotting buff bots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miestro View Post
    In this game, maybe. But I can mention a few other games who'se support classes aren't restricted to AOE hotting buff bots.
    Doesn't matter, you can have support abilites without having healing ... but healing itself IS SUPPORT. Just having healing makes you a support class in addition to whatever else you are.
    Characters: Taldren, Sohwyn, Mythander, Paldren.
    RIFT (Sunrest) - Guardian - Irony || WAR (PT/Gorfang) - Alliance - Irony
    WoW (Azgalor/MT) - Order - Ravens || DAoC (Percival) - Hibernia - Ravens of the Veil

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taldren View Post
    Doesn't matter, you can have support abilites without having healing ... but healing itself IS SUPPORT. Just having healing makes you a support class in addition to whatever else you are.
    Like i said "IN THIS GAME". A better game would have made a more dynamic support class. One that isn't just a heal spam buff bot.

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