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Thread: Finkle's PvE DPS problem

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    Default Finkle's PvE DPS problem

    Howdy fellow Rogues! Finkle here. I was looking for some opinions or suggestions on a way out of my current predicament. Maybe you guys can give me an idea of what you would do in this situation.

    Here goes.

    -The highest PvE DPS specs for rogues right now are done in melee range.
    -There are many fights in T-1 and T-2 where melee is not an option.
    -Because of my Bard role, PvP role, and tank role, I do not have room for 2 DPS specs.
    -Therefore, my 1 DPS role HAS to be able to do ranged damage.

    With me so far?

    So that leaves me with trying to decide between Sab, and mixes of bow specs. Now, everything I read and then parse tested myself had Ranger doing the most DPS. So I tested it in actual instances. Here are my findings:

    -On fights that are melee friendly, and even a lot that aren't...my DPS was fine
    -On a few fights, the pet simply CAN NOT live.
    -When the pet is not up, my DPS drops too low for me to be happy with it
    -It seems that a lot of the fights where the pet can't survive are also the fights where DPS matters the most. (i.e. last boss in DD, last 2 bosses in LH, last boss in KB, etc...)

    So what do I do?
    What would you do?
    Last edited by Finkle; 04-04-2011 at 06:22 AM.
    Finkle: Dwarven Rogue
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  2. #2
    Plane Touched Cheezer's Avatar
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    Default Ask For Additional Role Slots: Even 1 or 2 Will Help Rog Tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Finkle View Post
    -The highest PvE DPS specs for rogues right now are done in melee range.
    -There are many fights in T-1 and T-2 where melee is not an option.
    -Because of my Bard role, PvP role, and tank role, I do not have room for 2 DPS specs.
    -Therefore, my 1 DPS role HAS to be able to do ranged damage.

    With me so far?
    Yeah, but most players will not even be able to understand your situation unless they also play a similar setup.

    Rog Tanks and PvP Clerics who Tank will know our pain.
    Warriors will not be able to see your problem.

    Options:
    Play with 1 ranged DPS, limiting your performance.
    Drop and redo a role for a secondary DPS role every time you do dungeons.

    Solution: Ask for additional Role Slots. Even 1 or 2 will help us Rog Tanks tons....

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezer View Post
    Yeah, but most players will not even be able to understand your situation unless they also play a similar setup.

    Rog Tanks and PvP Clerics who Tank will know our pain.
    Warriors will not be able to see your problem.

    Options:
    Play with 1 ranged DPS, limiting your performance.
    Drop and redo a role for a secondary DPS role every time you do dungeons.

    Solution: Ask for additional Role Slots. Even 1 or 2 will help us Rog Tanks tons....
    Hah! I have been saying it in guild chat for a couple weeks now. "WTB 5th role, PST!"

    So are those really my only options here?! lol Gimp myself or respec before every instance "just in case". I was trying to get away from that!
    Finkle: Dwarven Rogue
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  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    I tell my guild, that when the instance starts i will either have to drop my bard for a melee dps build or keep it, so if they need max dps for a fight it wont be from me cause i dont have enough roles. being a main tank is the problem, before i started tanking i had plenty of room to try out a new build, but 4 is not enough when 2 are bard/tank by default and 2 left over in a game where there is pvp. we have a mage that dps's in his pvp pyro spec and his dps sux... dont want to be like him and hold down the group so if melee dps is needed i tank, it's that simple.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    i know i have a need of more specs aswel.

    currently i run a tank spec a bd raid dps spec (cous thats how i like to play) and a nb dps spec (as its just needed in certain fights cous it does more dmg)

    and last a pvp spec.

    this leads to me not having a bard spec and many complaining to me that i don't have it.

    tough i don't like playing bard why do so many try to force me making a bard spec ? i am quite well rounded with other specs.

    ohye i also miss a ranged spec but honestly you can't have it all really.

    1-3 more roles would be nice then i could have a second pvp spec (some wf's just require other specs) a bard spec, and a ranged dps spec.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    Warble warble
    If I were selfish enough to adhere to a "'cause that's how I like to play" attitude, I wouldn't have this problem. I would have 4 PvP specs and tell my guild/raiding team/friends to piss on themselves.

    However, I am not selfish. I want my group to succeed as a team. Therefore, I am trying to put myself in the best situation to accomplish that. Our problems are not the same.
    Finkle: Dwarven Rogue
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  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finkle View Post
    If I were selfish enough to adhere to a "'cause that's how I like to play" attitude, I wouldn't have this problem. I would have 4 PvP specs and tell my guild/raiding team/friends to piss on themselves.

    However, I am not selfish. I want my group to succeed as a team. Therefore, I am trying to put myself in the best situation to accomplish that. Our problems are not the same.
    lol both my bard and rs builds are pvp builds, they just work in pve just fine, i really have 4 pvp builds but 1 has good ranged dps in pve and the others work in pve as well. i use all 4 of my roles in pvp and that is how i like it. to have a max pve dps spec means i automatically lose 1 role that otherwise would be for pvp.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  8. #8
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    Just do what I do and do nothing but tank or bard...

    Makes everything far easier.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Cheezer's Avatar
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    Default Not just Riftstalker - It is more of a roles for PvP issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finkle View Post
    Hah! I have been saying it in guild chat for a couple weeks now. "WTB 5th role, PST!"

    So are those really my only options here?! lol Gimp myself or respec before every instance "just in case". I was trying to get away from that!
    Well, for me I have:

    1. Full Assasin. This is my solo pve and (group) single tgt dps build. I also switch to this as my default role unless I am grouped.

    2. Full Bard. I see this a required Rog build and love playing bard.

    3. Full Riftstalker. Tanking build.

    4. Full Marksman (yes, lols - for now). Consistently low ranged DPS and annoying in PvP.


    I cannot drop roles 1, 2 or 3 as they a required for me to function as an effective Rogue player.

    That leaves me Role 4 to use to test with, use a ranged DPS and... whatever else.


    Trying to get others to understand (much less empathize) with our situation feels futile.

    This is not just a Riftstalker issue. I did bring up this issue when I was playing an inquisitor based cleric:

    Thread: Do We Need More Than 4 Roles - 10+

    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...han-4-Roles-10

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    Maybe I will try that tonight. my PvP spec is 41 Sin/12 NB/14 BD or something along those lines. Maybe I should see what kind of DPS I can sustain with that guy. If I can make it stick at 550 on the boss dummy that'll be my answer. Use that for PvE dps and on fights where melee won't work I can put together that 1 ranged spec (with no pet) that will do the best it can for just those situations.
    Finkle: Dwarven Rogue
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  11. #11
    Plane Touched Cheezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finkle View Post
    Role 3: 51 RS/7 BD/ 8 RNGR (Tank)
    Since my gear is still lacking for tanking, I use a 51RS/7BD/8BD, limiting my ranged combo builders significantly. I was considering using your tank build as my 4th role until I get my pants from the Bonelord.

    You have nice gear and an active guild.
    If you were gearing up for PUG T1 tanking, would you find 2 Rifty builds necessary to tank properly? heh

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezer View Post
    Since my gear is still lacking for tanking, I use a 51RS/7BD/8BD, limiting my ranged combo builders significantly. I was considering using your tank build as my 4th role until I get my pants from the Bonelord.

    You have nice gear and an active guild.
    If you were gearing up for PUG T1 tanking, would you find 2 Rifty builds necessary to tank properly? heh
    1. 51RS/7BD/8BD?? What did you mean to say?

    2. As a Pug T-1 tank I think one build is fine. Just go buy the blue crafted toughness chest and pants off the AH and throw a baby toughness gem on the chest. After that, look for high armor pieces wil good End on them. That will give you enough to tank T-1. Then you can just improve on pieces as you can.
    Finkle: Dwarven Rogue
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  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finkle View Post
    1. 51RS/7BD/8BD?? What did you mean to say?

    2. As a Pug T-1 tank I think one build is fine. Just go buy the blue crafted toughness chest and pants off the AH and throw a baby toughness gem on the chest. After that, look for high armor pieces wil good End on them. That will give you enough to tank T-1. Then you can just improve on pieces as you can.
    bard bladedancer... most ppl say bd for both and he did in this case.

    i drop bard from all my tank builds as the extra hp are not better than ranger for the ranged combo builder/finishers, and nothing beats bladedancer, im considering 12-14BD for the interrupt and snare, losing 4% hp and 4% DR is worth it imo.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    But back to the situation/question in the original post. Any new ideas/opinions?
    Finkle: Dwarven Rogue
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  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Avarix's Avatar
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    Here's what I'd try...
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0usz0z.x0x0V0m

    If you're going to build a hybrid spec, you'll have to focus on doing just a few things well from each.

    For pure melee, NB works great even with just 26 points, lots of damage available, sticking to Primal Death, Dusk Strike, Ebon Fury and Scourge of Darkness. The procs and burns take care of the rest.

    From Ranger and MM, you have plenty of ranged damage boosters up through Master Archer which gives you another proc. You can use 2 procs from NB, 1 from MM, 1 from a trinket, and 2 from Greater essences for a total of 6 potential procs per shot.

    I'd probably stick to a rotation of Pedestal > Splinter Shot > Piercing > Quick Shot > Swift Shot > Head/Hasted shot for single targets. For groups, Improved Trick Shot plus Opportunity adds up the combo points so fast you should get a Concussive Blast or Headshot in no time.

    Additionally, the NB Scourge of Darkness finisher has great synergy with a ranged spec.
    Last edited by Avarix; 04-04-2011 at 10:55 AM.

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