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Thread: Proposed changes for Assassin soul

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Conundrum's Avatar
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    Default Proposed changes for Assassin soul

    Just proposing a few changes to the Assassin soul tree that would most likely result in a reasonable increase in our dps, nothing over the top though.

    Poison Potency

    Current: Increases the damage your Poison abilities deal by 5% per point, up to 15% at 3/3

    Proposed: Allow weapon enchantments (not just poisons, but also including NB weapon enchants) to critically strike. Utilizes 33% of the rogues critical hit chance per point, so at 3/3 weapon enchants would have the same critical rate as your base attack. For example, if a person has a base 30% critical rate, and has 1/3 into this skill, they have a 10% chance to critical with weapon enchants, and 20% chance at 2/3 and so on.

    This proposed change could possibly require a renaming of the talent.


    Poison Mastery

    Current: Increases the chance your Poison-coated weapons apply Poison to your enemy by 2% per point, up to 10% at 5/5

    Proposed: Allow this talent to apply to any weapon enchants, such as Hellfire Blades in the Nightblade soul.

    This proposed change could possibly require a renaming of the talent.





    Anyone else out there that thinks this could be a reasonable change to the Assassin soul?

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    Nice suggestions, they could work.

    I personally think they should do these two things:

    1. Increase the contribution of AP to auto attack and abilities. This would help not just assassin but all rogue specs in their needed dps adjustment. For assassins, this would give backstab the difference it is lacking to the critastic Savage Strike.

    2. Reduce the CD of Serpent Strike to 5 or 6 seconds. Currently Serp Strike does around 900-1k when it crits with a 10sec cooldown = 90-100dps (if it constantly crits). Reducing the CD to 5 seconds would = 180-200dps (IF it constantly crits). So a max of 90-100dps increase if it is always critical striking is quite reasonable. This would also make 51point sin a sought after build

    These two suggestions imo should bring the assassin's pve and pvp dps up into warrior/mage ranges while not being OP. MM is another matter with a fair few more changes needed lol.

    My two cents anyways.
    Last edited by spankdaddi; 04-03-2011 at 06:39 PM.
    Erazed - 50 rogue.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    You are talking about pvp or pve ?

    Because Serpent Strike is fine in pvp.

    The only thing I really want to change is the useless Brew Potion.
    yeah, I know you can use it to dot yourself..

  4. #4
    Plane Touched Conundrum's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, Brew Potion....

    They should just remove the healing component, and make it a stacking damage buff. It would introduce a element of risk vs. reward. The more times you stack the Brew Potion, the more damage you put out, but the downside is you also take more DoT damage from the stacks.

    For example:

    Can be stacked up to 5 times.
    Increases damage output 5% for each stack for 15 seconds.
    Rogue takes 200 damage over 15 seconds per stack.

    So at 5 stacks, 25% increased damage but taking 1000 damage over 15 seconds from the DoT.
    Last edited by Conundrum; 04-03-2011 at 06:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Terpsichore's Avatar
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    Honestly, there's no room for the poison boosting talents in a pvp build as long as you are forced to go deep into BD/RS to fix your non-existent mobility.


    Assassins need mobility, either healing debuff or a defensive cooldown and certain gimmick skills changed (expose weakness, baneful touch/poison malice doing the same thing, backstab not hurting enough, assassinate being terrible).

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyraxi View Post
    You are talking about pvp or pve ?

    Because Serpent Strike is fine in pvp.

    The only thing I really want to change is the useless Brew Potion.
    yeah, I know you can use it to dot yourself..
    Yeah being able to dot ourselves is pretty awesome I do have to say!!

    My Serp Strike suggestion is for both. Sure it might be doing OK in pvp but the reduced cooldown is just increasing our overall dps slightly, and we do need an increase.
    Erazed - 50 rogue.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Conundrum's Avatar
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    Personally I am suggesting these changes as more of a PvE change. Since they aren't used in PvP builds, it wont affect PvP, win-win situation if you ask me.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    I always thought it'd be really appropriate to have a finisher that dealt a little less base damage than final blow and it's effect was it takes all the ticks remaining in your dots (puncture, jagged strike and impale) and causes them all to execute immediately. Certainly would make up for the assassin's lack of burst DPS as the idea of an assassin is kinda dependent on a lot of damage in a little time.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Conundrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitelycandf View Post
    I always thought it'd be really appropriate to have a finisher that dealt a little less base damage than final blow and it's effect was it takes all the ticks remaining in your dots (puncture, jagged strike and impale) and causes them all to execute immediately. Certainly would make up for the assassin's lack of burst DPS as the idea of an assassin is kinda dependent on a lot of damage in a little time.
    That would be something a little more geared towards PvP I would imagine. Assassin does have a lack of burst DPS, with the soul being built more around bleeds and poisons. That alone makes me believe that Assassin has been made with PvE in mind, though I still have a blast with it in open world PvP. Nothing says "oh hai there!" like popping out of nowhere to apply a bunch of bleeds and a slow, hitting Slip Away and laugh at them from the shadows until you strike again.

    Anyone else got any input on the proposed changes to Poison Potency and Poison Mastery from my original post?

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    That would be something a little more geared towards PvP I would imagine. Assassin does have a lack of burst DPS, with the soul being built more around bleeds and poisons. That alone makes me believe that Assassin has been made with PvE in mind, though I still have a blast with it in open world PvP. Nothing says "oh hai there!" like popping out of nowhere to apply a bunch of bleeds and a slow, hitting Slip Away and laugh at them from the shadows until you strike again.

    Anyone else got any input on the proposed changes to Poison Potency and Poison Mastery from my original post?
    I see your point but I disagree with it. Be honest, how many seconds does it take for an assassin (played by a good player) to kill a mob. For me, anywhere from 4 (with crits) to 8 seconds. I don't remember th duration on our bleeds but a 5 cp impale lasts over 20 seconds. Jagged probably lasts about 16 and puncture I think 12. (btw puncture sucks ***, wanted to get that off my chest. Good for nothing but it's initial damage and the 2 cps it generates). So if we kill mobs in ~6 seconds, that's a LOT of wasted damage. Almost better off just opening with assassinate or dark malady or paralyzing strike. But staying true to my class I open with jagged strike > puncture > impale > dusk strike > savage strike+. Oh well

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitelycandf View Post
    I see your point but I disagree with it. Be honest, how many seconds does it take for an assassin (played by a good player) to kill a mob. For me, anywhere from 4 (with crits) to 8 seconds.
    This is a completely irrelevant point. Assassins do have their 10 seconds of fury out of stealth, and usually this is enough time to kill a mob if you're farming/questing, but I believe the discussion in this thread is geared toward the aspects of the game that actually matter, such as a dungeon encounters, or PvP, where NPCs/players alike don't die so fast.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Chibisukei's Avatar
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    Remove exposed weakness from the GCD and give it a 10s CD

    Add a poison with a slow proc? (30%) (Not really needed if you keep em slowed, but it sometimes wheres off if they start running the SECOND you pop out of stealth or if they use a blink)

    As far as enduring brew, keep either the healing reduction OR the dot, but both is overkill

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmachi View Post
    This is a completely irrelevant point. Assassins do have their 10 seconds of fury out of stealth, and usually this is enough time to kill a mob if you're farming/questing, but I believe the discussion in this thread is geared toward the aspects of the game that actually matter, such as a dungeon encounters, or PvP, where NPCs/players alike don't die so fast.
    Lol @ 10 seconds of fury. We apply 3 dots and start doing somewhat decent dps. Maybe 10 seconds of mild annoyance.

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser mercilous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spankdaddi View Post

    2. Reduce the CD of Serpent Strike to 5 or 6 seconds. Currently Serp Strike does around 900-1k when it crits with a 10sec cooldown = 90-100dps (if it constantly crits). Reducing the CD to 5 seconds would = 180-200dps (IF it constantly crits). So a max of 90-100dps increase if it is always critical striking is quite reasonable. This would also make 51point sin a sought after build
    This is what I think also. I absolutely love Serpent however, the 10 second cooldown really bothers me. I say 3-5 seconds. Right now, I don't feel like it's good enough to be a 51 point talent. If they moved it down to...say 40 points, it would free up another 11 points for me to add to my dps/utility. =)
    Faemist - Rank 4 Guardian Assassin - Mercilous
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  15. #15
    Plane Walker Atavax's Avatar
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    i like the OP's proposed changes, but i also think the main failing of the assassin soul is the impale ability. its very deep into the tree, but i don't see any gains in dps using it in even the most ideal circumstances. a long bleed effect obviously has disadvantages in pvp where burst damage is desirable. and the long bleed effect wouldn't be very useful in aoe fights. I think impale should clearly be desirable to keep up on single target fights inorder to maximize dps. A stronger Impale would also mean less of a penalty for being an assassin in fights that are not melee friendly because you don't need to be next to the target the entire time to keep it up.
    the beatings will continue until morale improves

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