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Thread: Buff duration of Motifs

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Buff duration of Motifs

    I shouldn't have to cast the same buff over and over every 25 or so seconds in order to keep it up 100% of the time. In my opinion trion needs to make it a 2-5 minute buff or a permanent buff to keep the bard class from worrying too much about their motif durations and more about cadence and codas.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Or at the very least they could roll some of the motifs together. It is just pointless tedium and makes bard pale in comparison to classes like Chloromancer.

    Bards vs Chloro, Cons:
    Must actively reapply buffs every 30s
    1/5-1/4 of a Chloro's DPS
    No cleanse/dispel
    No resurrect
    Short Range
    No single target heal
    Probably least interesting talent tree in the game
    A really weak aoe heal once every 60s that is less than or equal to the healing of your finisher.

    Pros:
    5% buffs to crit/dmg, which is still less overall dps than the group with Chloromancer.
    Reduced dmg taken by 5%, which is overshadowed by Chloro more aoe healing.
    Limited CC. This would potentially be where bards shine, but unfortunately the Mez is so short it is relatively useless in pve.

    If you just gave bards Anthem of fervor, Motif of Restoration, and increased their dmg, and subsequently healing, it would server basically the same purpose as those buffs. The only thing keeping bards using the other buffs is because their damage is artificially low.
    Last edited by Toranis; 04-03-2011 at 11:11 AM.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Yeah now that you listed all the things that are wrong with the bard class I think I will go play my mage. Too bad to, I really wanted to play the rogue up to 50, but if it's that bad compared to a similiar class I guess I'll give up on the bad*** class that could have been (intro cinematic) and go into the more powerful/pretty much same role class as the bard.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    I totally agree about the motifs having to be cast so often, they should last 5 mins. imo or even longer wouldnt hurt a thing and i guarantee noone would being saying bards are OP. As it is bards are boring as heck to play because of the constant spamming of buffs it cuts our already pathetic dps in half and even though it might be helpful to the group its not the same as targetted healing where you can see the effects your spells are having.
    Last edited by pawpaw; 04-03-2011 at 11:35 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    yeah really to fix bard is put a duration on the motifs so you're not constantly casting them over and over.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Don't forget that pretty much every bard already spent 5 skillpoints to have the motifs last those 30 seconds.

    I'd go crazy with the default duration.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    I quite like it myself, reminds me a little my bard twisting on EQ, exept the duration was 5sec and there was a lot more choice in the songs, here you simply play everything.

  8. #8
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Why is having to reapply a spell every 25 seconds considered a chore, but doing the same thing every 10 seconds with damage abilities is just considered the norm?

    I couldn't imagine how mind numbingly boring Bard would be if you didn't have to manage your Motifs.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Magenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toranis View Post
    Or at the very least they could roll some of the motifs together. It is just pointless tedium and makes bard pale in comparison to classes like Chloromancer.

    Bards vs Chloro, Cons:
    Must actively reapply buffs every 30s
    1/5-1/4 of a Chloro's DPS
    No cleanse/dispel
    No resurrect
    Short Range
    No single target heal
    Probably least interesting talent tree in the game
    A really weak aoe heal once every 60s that is less than or equal to the healing of your finisher.

    Pros:
    5% buffs to crit/dmg, which is still less overall dps than the group with Chloromancer.
    Reduced dmg taken by 5%, which is overshadowed by Chloro more aoe healing.
    Limited CC. This would potentially be where bards shine, but unfortunately the Mez is so short it is relatively useless in pve.
    Bard is a buff and support class. If you want to be a main healer for groups, then reroll Cleric or Chloro.

    They shouldn't even be compared.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Bard Archon and Warlord need to be COMPLETELY OVERHAULED

    borderline remade from scratch
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawpaw View Post
    I totally agree about the motifs having to be cast so often, they should last 5 mins. imo or even longer wouldnt hurt a thing and i guarantee noone would being saying bards are OP. As it is bards are boring as heck to play because of the constant spamming of buffs it cuts our already pathetic dps in half and even though it might be helpful to the group its not the same as targetted healing where you can see the effects your spells are having.
    5 mins? At that point, just make them passive auras for speccing into Bard.

    I think there are two reasons for making the Bard buffs shorter duration:

    1. It prevents non-Bards from maintaining the buffs without costing them a fair amount of DPS. Otherwise, why bring a full Bard if a Ranger/Bard can easily provide the same buffs without lowering their DPS? Cadence healing is nice, but it's just a part of the reason to bring a Bard.

    2. It fills out the Bard 'rotation' more. Without using motifs, what are you doing? Cadence, Power Chord, Coda, Cadence, Power Chord, Coda, Cadence, Power Chord, Coda, repeat ad nauseum. It would be like going from a mildly interesting rotation, to an absolutely boring rotation. The only choice you'd ever make would be "Do I use Coda of Wrath/Fury, or Coda of Restoration?" Other classes have to watch DoTs and self buffs. Why shouldn't we have to watch them?

    If Chloro's are doing more DPS when they are main healing, then Bard DPS needs to be raised, or Chloro DPS needs to be lowered (with a Lifegiving Veil buff). If Chloro's are doing more damage when they are offhealing and focusing on damage, there is no problem at all with that, as Bard's provide many more buffs than Chloro's.

    If motifs are 'boring', then they need interesting effects added to them, not duration boosts to the point where they are practically passive auras. What if Motif of Focus increased the damage of your next attack, meaning it was best to use before a Coda of Wrath? What if Motif of Grandeur boosted the healing of your next Cadence/Coda of Restoration/Verse of Vitality? What if Motif of Bravery dealt damage and generated a combo point? Then it would matter *when* you used these abilities, because you would want to maximize their secondary effects while also maintaining 100% uptime on the buffs.

    Alternately, they could add a 45 sec CD ability that activated all 5 motifs at once, to free up some time for doing other things every other Motif rotation, and also make it easier to get your buffs up quickly.

    I wouldn't compare Bard to Chloro. Chloro is a healer. Compare Bard to Archon, which is a Support as well. Is Archon more fun than Bard? If so, why?
    Last edited by thenewzero; 04-03-2011 at 07:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    Why is having to reapply a spell every 25 seconds considered a chore, but doing the same thing every 10 seconds with damage abilities is just considered the norm?

    I couldn't imagine how mind numbingly boring Bard would be if you didn't have to manage your Motifs.
    This. Although a skill chain or finisher that would refresh the motifs wouldn't be terrible but as they stand i am fine with it. Another alternative would be go to 45 second durations.

    Also for those compairing healing to Chloros, please look at Bloodmages from Vanguard. Very cool class that did all of its healing through DPS. Bards are not main healers nor should they have the ability too. That being said maybe a slight increase to healing would give a little more value
    Last edited by SvnStrSlm; 04-03-2011 at 08:08 PM.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    The big problem with the short duration is that all the reasons for making it short do not exist. If they stacked that would be a good reason to make them so short because 5 mins would be a bit much. However, they don't stack and they are not as good as buffs provided by other classes. I'd be fine with the duration if they at least stacked or were the best buffs available.

    What I'd like to see happen is to make 30 secs the base and change Bardic Inspiration by swapping it with Deafening Music and instead of increasing Motif duration having it boost the effects of Motifs by something like 10-50 or 20-100%.

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara
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    man for example warlord only gets buffs as a 3-point finishers and they are ****ing worse than bard buffs and lasts only 15 sec
    This must be Gersh.
    Stop trolling.
    Die. Just die.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    game is new, i remember vanila wow when paladins had to reapply seals for 30 seconds. fast forward 7 years those exact same seals that do the exact same thing last 30 minutes and those 5 minute blessings last an hour.

    and you'd think the people at trion would have played WoW... guess not if they are making the same mistakes! in short, NO ONE WANTS TO MASH A BUFF EVERY 5 MINUTES LET ALONE EVERY 30 SECONDS!!! group buffs should last 1 hour minimum and motifs should last 30 minutes for 100% uptime!!!!
    Last edited by Hokonoso; 04-04-2011 at 09:31 AM.
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