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Thread: 51rng/15nb/sin my new t2/raid spec

  1. #1
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    Default 51rng/15nb/sin my new t2/raid spec

    So after experimenting with a couple of nb/xx/xx builds and finding SEMI-decent dps (about 650), I realized it wasn't very practical for a majority of the boss fights in raids and t2s. they are, as we say, melee unfriendly and I'm not prepared to use some kind of hybrid nb/rng spec and solve a damn physics equation in those kinds of fights (i.e. keep up fiery spike, use headshot here, then this macro, that macro, move into melee, move out of melee, etc) to keep my dps up

    so i went to 51rng/15nb/0sin (full t2 gear) and it's working out pretty well. no absolute numbers since a lot of boss fights require you to stop dps and such, but relatively speaking i'm usually either a little above the war/mage/cleric dps or #2.

    couple of things to keep in mind that are apparent from just the build itself

    -pet has 95% aoe damage reduction (i think) at 51. pet can actually stay alive through 90% of the boss fights pretty easy and even keep dps'ing when you and your group members need to los.

    -pet gets a huge dps boost, around 180 dps at 51. synergizes well with survivability.

    -relatively simple rotation. start with piercing, shadow, use quick as your normal attack, keep splinter and shadow refreshed.

    i know im gonna get flamed because im not squeezing every single last drop of dps out of my rogue. but im not a fan of learning complex rotations which even aren't that practical on 90% of the bosses. not to mention a warrior can do more dps anyway with much less complexity involved

    so give it a try, i think you'll be surprised at how much the pet can actually survive a boss fight. also if you have any thoughts on the rotation for this build let me know
    Last edited by Durak; 04-03-2011 at 08:08 AM.

  2. #2
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    Try 51 Ranger / 12 NB /3 Sin

    3% Critical is better than 3% Damage.

    Its what i am running to do dailies and when i am forced to range somewhere or a fight where i know a melee spec wont cut it.
    Last edited by potis; 04-03-2011 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #3
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    I have come to the same conclusion, although my build is slightly different. I use 49 ranger / 17 assassin / 0 RS. I have so much crit stacked that Cruel Vengeance and Magnify Pain result in similar damage upgrade as the NB tree while giving me two weapon enchantments and leaves the third soul free for riftstalker and its teleport. Could also use marksman as the third soul to get access to swift shot which is useful since spamming quick shot is not optimal due to the bleed from it not ticking if it gets spammed.

    potis: I don't see how 3% crit would result in more dps than 3% damage. It's not a huge difference, but the damage wins.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I have come to the same conclusion, although my build is slightly different. I use 49 ranger / 17 assassin / 0 RS. I have so much crit stacked that Cruel Vengeance and Magnify Pain result in similar damage upgrade as the NB tree while giving me two weapon enchantments and leaves the third soul free for riftstalker and its teleport. Could also use marksman as the third soul to get access to swift shot which is useful since spamming quick shot is not optimal due to the bleed from it not ticking if it gets spammed.

    potis: I don't see how 3% crit would result in more dps than 3% damage. It's not a huge difference, but the damage wins.
    because this game isnt like wow. in this game crit > all other stats since critting is most important thing you can do!

    it's hard to mathcraft it but if you simply test it you will see it comes out ahead on a dummy.
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  5. #5
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    You take Nb/Sin for the weapon procs..Even though they suck a bit..

    If you are gonna take Sin better take 3% critical along with the poison.. I have like 36% critical in that spec..and i still need items replaced cause they dont wanna drop..to have an even bigger value.

    and in any case Crit > everything in this game.

    Also with 49 at ranger you miss the buff for the pet..not a great buff but a cute "burst"
    Last edited by potis; 04-03-2011 at 08:56 AM.

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    You know I tried a bow spec when 1.1 hit. I parsed and parsed. I actually saw better numbers with a bow spec than with Sab from ranged. However when I COULD melee Sab outdamaged the bow spec. Also, I decided against it with the thought of my pet constantly going **squish** in T-1s and T-2s.

    Perhaps I should stop assuming my pet will always be dead and give it a shot.
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    Tried a lot of builds recently, the ranger build has been superior to all others since 1.1, as it is the best functioning all around spec.

    a proper nb melee spec can get you more single target, but barely...

    sab seems to pack biggest aoe punch now with single target being crap in comparison to ranger, but not ready to put my full weight behind that statement yet.

  8. #8
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    could you link the actual spec and rotation for this?

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    For all the 51 point rangers, remove splinter shot from your rotation and u should see a dps increase.

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    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    All that really leaves you is quickshot(which when spammed doesn't tick) and a 20 second shadow fire. Where is the damage coming from? I don't see how quick shot and headshot would put up the numbers to make up the DPS. I will try it tonight, but I am willing to bet I can parse higher with Ranger/MM/Sin. Of course that is with a pet that would die more in action I think. We'll see.
    Last edited by Finkle; 04-03-2011 at 09:21 AM.
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    3% damage > 3% crit, unless you have passive crit bonus stacked up

    I see specs with 20% bonus which is X1.7 damage, that makes damage better
    If you stack a lot of crit talents, then crit might be better

    Crit will be better for pvp, as you want your damage as spikey as possible

    Think of it this way
    do you want to do 103-175 even distribution or 100-170 with a slight chance of doing 170 more often?
    bird in cage
    bird peck on button to get food
    bird peck on button get food randomly, bird pecks constantly
    They play you like a stupid bird.
    Unfortunately that has been MMO standard operating procedure since EQ.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Try 51 Ranger / 12 NB /3 Sin

    3% Critical is better than 3% Damage.

    Its what i am running to do dailies and when i am forced to range somewhere or a fight where i know a melee spec wont cut it.
    no its not... 3% to all damage or a 3% chance to do 60% more damage... the math is not there...



    and i have been saying good things about this build for well over a month... the reason is does so well is because of the exponential scaling of the pet. The more points spent in the ranger tree the more they boost you pet.. its not a linear scale.

    in simple terms look at 2 of the buffs you do to your pet, the 15% from there being a bleed on the target and 5% from headshot. In simple terms it is better to add 20% damage to 100% more damage then to 40% more which is what you would have with a 31 point build.


    People do not think in those terms, they just see it as each point is a small increase, but each point is actually a larger increase then the previous. So its a sliding scale.

    Also another thing to take into account, though tons of testing it does not seem that the crit from the ranger souls tacks with the assassin soul. In the paperdoll they show that they do but when you parse it you don't not see it reflected, you only see a 5% increase not a 10% (if you were to put 5 in both)

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    The only probelm I have is that at a full 51 points in ranger, the raptor pet will put out a max of, what, 190 DPS?

    With nothing but headshot, quick shot, a 20 sec 2 sec cast shot, and a small bleed...how much DPS does that leave us putting out with our bow?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finkle View Post
    The only probelm I have is that at a full 51 points in ranger, the raptor pet will put out a max of, what, 190 DPS?

    With nothing but headshot, quick shot, a 20 sec 2 sec cast shot, and a small bleed...how much DPS does that leave us putting out with our bow?
    actually your pet scales stupidly well... they scale off your stats... so when you get buffed tehy get buffed as well as they get the buffs as well.. its not hard to break 200 DPS with the pet on singlet target in group/raid settings.. and as for you with the bot you can EASILY vbreak 500 DPS on your own in group/raid settings...


    with where rogues are now the 51/15/0 rng/nb/sin spec is the most stable and consistant DPS of the rogue specs IMO. Simply because it will work for nearly every fight. There are a small number of fights that are harsh on pets via bugs or mechanics, but that number is no more then 4 or 5 where as the number of non melee friendly fights is well over a dozen.

    The only real drawback to the spec is the fact that its damage is so consistant and stable, it does not really have much in the way of burst. That can be good in bad. Good in the fact that you never spike damage to risk pulling aggro like the ******ed warriors out there, bad in the fact that when you need that extra push on things like the big bomb on Johleen you lack in that department and need the burst from others because you are so conisistant.



    one other thing to note before the trolls saying that some 31 marks crap build is better is this, just because you can parse better on a dummy that does not fight back and does not move does not make a spec better. You MUST take into account AoE as well as movement. Ranger is a PET BASED soul, so you must have your pet alive and well, and with a god chunk of the fights out there AoE can kill a weak pet very easily. As of right now, no spec will function in group as well and give more reliable DPS. Some specs will be better for some fights but most will be worse for most fights. Melee Specs can do more, but no boss stands still like the dummy and lets you just wail on him start to finish
    Last edited by Jekyll03; 04-03-2011 at 10:17 AM.

  15. #15
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    http://seelenplaner.telara.net/#rogu...15311311511;28

    might want to try using something like this.
    i know it looks kinda weird, but it works very well.. and the pet still has a lot of survivability (only around 10% less, if your pet is going to get oneshotted with 10% more damage, its going to get 1shotted with 10% less damage most likely)

    with this you have +10% more damage on fights where you can plop down a pedestal as well.
    the rotation is actually no cast time shots at all (if you want you can shadow fire to start the fight, but overall keeping casted shots going won't help you at all with this spec)

    its meant to actually do the most damage by firing the most amount of shots as quickly as possible for procing master archer and such with insta cast shots as well as keeping up 2 buffs, headshot and rapid fire shot. your main finisher when those two are up is hasted shot. instead of quick shot, you use swift shot.

    no need to keep up a bleed on your target ever with your own shots because your raptor has a bleed that is up 100% of the time, so its giving itself a damage buff regardless of you casting a bleed or not.

    as far as a macro if you want one for your combo point building abilities:
    #show swift shot
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast crippling shot
    cast piercing shot
    cast swift shot
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