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Thread: [Trion] Sustained PVE dps parses, stats, conclusions and suggestions.

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    Champion Harkain's Avatar
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    Default [Trion] Sustained PVE dps parses, stats, conclusions and suggestions.

    Wearing the same gear, a mix of t1 badge+drop purples and t2 badge+drop purples.
    2x 29.2 dps 1handers, 1 36dps range weapon.

    Stats as following with 0 soulpoints spent and no buffs.
    ap 393
    crit 634

    *target for test: boss test dummy.

    *target time for test: 5 minutes (alowing 2 cycles of 2 minute cds) Every build was parsed atleast twice and the be

    result used.

    *Builds can provided if asked for, i am asuming most people know them or where to spend points so linking builds

    feels redudant.

    *all dps is rounded downwards

    *http://www.precept.cc/forums/showthr...6443#post66443 is for parse results and builds, parse results availible in screwy forum format or notepad copy at the bottom.

    Dps numbers are ofcourse not exact, parses might varry due to crit streaks, rotation misses etc and all numbers

    should be seen with a +3 -3 dps set of goggles on.

    Melee specs used:

    build 1 51ass/5rng/10 nb
    -dps: 624
    -suggested changes: Positional combat is just that, while in theory this build has the best damage of any rogue class it boils down to being able to use the positonal combat which is far from possible always. It is however equally hard to do much about this without upsetting pvp, my suggestion would however be something alone the line of physical trauma enhancing serrated blade effect back to 300%, it wont wont affect pvp to much but will work for more fire and forgett damage in pve for a slight boost.

    build 2:44nb/17ass/5rng
    -sustained dps: 633 (note that dps is slightly lower than it should be as nightstalker phase wont trigger on dummy)
    -suggested changes: Nightstalker should be made to cover more NB attacks as its such deep investment for the class, also there is far to many defensive root unlocks at higher lvl which is odd as it lacks an "omph" dps skill akin to jagged strike. NB basicly needs a good, dot form fire finisher that is affected by its fire enhancers and nightstalker phase.

    32bd/18ass/16 nb
    -sustained dps: 619
    -suggested changes: Nothing new here, the bd is far to reactive to work in an sustained fight still, it needs that all the talents that activate on dodge/parry also works if Oponent dodges or parries, then the soul would be attractive for end game. Something also has to be adjusted with the blade dancer builders, they are by far underpreforming as the numbers show and comparing them to the assasin/nb builder(s) makes you cry.

    range specs

    35rng/17ass/14nb
    -dps: 639 (pet included)
    -suggested changes: Ranger are in dire need of an OMPH skill, a 2min cd dps enhancer that will push them about +50dps. Suggestion is that make hasten call add 100% damage to the rogue and their pet for 30 seconds, this way the rogue can use haste call as a resummon or as a dps enhancer but then losing the ability to summon if pet goes down.

    32MM/14rng/20nb
    dps: 441
    suggested changes: A more experiment than anything, also tried with higher MM. MM is just proably the worst soul for pve dps atm, the long casts and multiple cast simple makes pve dps unviable as pve dps as a rogue is alot about dot management. The tree has far to many pvp focused talents to make it usefull yet the pve side of it is lacking and has been since it was nerfed into the ground from beta 3 and onwards, something has to be done drasticly to change the soul to work in an pve setting and removing the channels on bread and butters skills is atleast in the right direction.

    summation: I feel the rogue classes are still supar in dps compared to their counterparts both melee and range. I am however also aware that simply increased damage numbers will cause pvp to start spiral down the insane burst damage way agian so my suggestion continues to be the same from beta: trion plz simply lower ALL energy costs of bread and butter skills, this creates a higher dps vallue without creating new bigger numbers. Sensible but increased dps is a must to be viable and effective to compete versus other callings, also look over each soul slightly, there are easy adjustments that will make a world of difference.

    thanks for reading.
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  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    600DPS wow.. A ****ing reaver tank can do that much dps. While mages and warriors(who still **** rogues up in pvp) are running around with half the gear doing twice the dps. Literally. How are you going to pull 600dps on boss where your running around like crazy your lucky to get 200-300dps if your pulling 600 standing still and thats leveled off after several minutes and fine tuning to get the highest. So honestly dummys are useless. Rogues need MORE dps than warriors specially melee ones that have to go fight and take way more damage than warriors. Do less dps, get one shotted by bosses. Play a rogue. maybe i should add not dogging on your post its good and thoughtout but you could never pull any of those numbers in hot combat and if you were pulling those numbers then mages and warriors would be doubling you.
    Last edited by hieroo; 04-02-2011 at 08:38 AM.

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    Champion Wifeagro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hieroo View Post
    600DPS wow.. A ****ing reaver tank can do that much dps. While mages and warriors(who still **** rogues up in pvp) are running around with half the gear doing twice the dps. Literally. How are you going to pull 600dps on boss where your running around like crazy your lucky to get 200-300dps if your pulling 600 standing still and thats leveled off after several minutes and fine tuning to get the highest. So honestly dummys are useless. Rogues need MORE dps than warriors specially melee ones that have to go fight and take way more damage than warriors. Do less dps, get one shotted by bosses. Play a rogue.
    Yes Rogue melee is severly broken right now in end game capping at 600 DPS and an occasional 750 , you want melee DPS roll a warrior i done with rogue, will play an alt till bored then unsub dont wanna spend another 3 or 4 weeks to lvl up a chr then beg guildies to run me through T1 while everyone is doing T2 and raiiding.

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    Soulwalker
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    yeah . lets all cancel our subscriptions show rift WE MEAN business. and EMAIL ME WHEN u make saboteurs do dps again cuz lets face it, melee rogue on boss fights or raids is like death or 300dps after dodging everything u have to dodge.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Just learn to your class, Deaden does redonk deeps, again if you havent see his SS

    http://img850.imageshack.us/i/20110402000507.jpg/


    I was tanking that for him

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    Champion Harkain's Avatar
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    i think my point was missed, structured feedback showing that rogues are subpar and lacking, not crazy-tinfoil-hat-beared-homelessguy-raving.

    I personally dont want to see sabs buffed, most boring playstyle ever invented but it should be on par and i dont belive any rogue should be doing 600dps, that is far to low.

    plz however express ourself abit organised and structured in this thread plz, there are tons of others for ranting.
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    Plane Walker
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    tbh what i think could change alot is this fact.

    warrior skills are based on 120% weapon dmg +x

    while rogue skills go weapon dmg +x.

    make rogue skills do 120% weapon dmg +x and i think we get a whole lot further.

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    Shield of Telara Caracarn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    tbh what i think could change alot is this fact.

    warrior skills are based on 120% weapon dmg +x

    while rogue skills go weapon dmg +x.

    make rogue skills do 120% weapon dmg +x and i think we get a whole lot further.
    Very good and simple approach. Still I doubt this will happen, because Trions approach towards rogues was always rather unclear. A basic mission statement for this calling, or at leath its dps-souls would be a very much appreciated move! Because atm melee rogues do not match dps-warriors, and ranged rogues are way behind pyros.
    ELDER of TELARA

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    Plane Touched Gerrard Ennui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terralol View Post
    Just learn to your class, Deaden does redonk deeps, again if you havent see his SS

    http://img850.imageshack.us/i/20110402000507.jpg/

    I was tanking that for him
    Wrong pic? this isnt relevant.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrard Ennui View Post
    Wrong pic? this isnt relevant.
    http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/j...t=dpsmeter.png

    Yes sorry wrong pic

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    Rift Disciple
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    Also a note:

    You will "NEVER" get a real reading off of a target dummy. Nightcrawler is actually a pretty big deal.
    WoW - Deadenlol/Cika/Vyka/Deaden - 6 Time Gladiator DK/Warrior/Rogue - Whisperwind (US)
    Rift - Deaden - Rogue - Lotham (US)
    DAoC - Fraletlan - r50 rr10 Smite Cleric - Iseult

    Dispelling rogue myths one at a time
    Yes, you can parse over 1k as a rogue.
    No, marksman is not an awful tree.
    Target dummies do not give an accurate representation of raid performance. Stop it.

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    Champion Harkain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terralol View Post
    so what is your point ?

    that in a raid setting dps is higher ?
    that in a specific encounter this parse was good (instead of a controlled enviroment everyone can replicate)
    that the top dps was up more than a minute longer than the dps below ? especially being a nightblade getting to sit over a minute longer in execute phase which is a skewed version of calculating dps.

    what you strike me as is someone who simply dont know the class and why things happened rather than stare yourself blind at a log, i mean come on your not even going down to skill breakdowns.
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    Champion Harkain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyka View Post
    Also a note:

    You will "NEVER" get a real reading off of a target dummy. Nightcrawler is actually a pretty big deal.
    i am pretty sure i even wrote that IN the inital post, nightSTALKER is a big deal..for 1 build, what about the others ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkain View Post
    so what is your point ?

    that in a raid setting dps is higher ?
    that in a specific encounter this parse was good (instead of a controlled enviroment everyone can replicate)
    that the top dps was up more than a minute longer than the dps below ? especially being a nightblade getting to sit over a minute longer in execute phase which is a skewed version of calculating dps.

    what you strike me as is someone who simply dont know the class and why things happened rather than stare yourself blind at a log, i mean come on your not even going down to skill breakdowns.

    Wow it's like someone ****ing stole your candy and you're just crying for the sake of it. This might seem cliche, but rogues are fine, learn to play.

    Yes raid DPS is substantially higher. Anthem of fervor is a big deal

    No, I wasn't active more than any other DPS. The DPS below me at 913 is actually *gasp* another nightblade.

    A controlled environment we can replicate? It's a ****ing target dummy that doesn't even take into account your execute phase. It's going go be skewed regardless. Why are you concerned about how well you can hit a target dummy when it's t2 and raid content that matters? I can go do a bunch of t2s when I get around to it and spout a bunch of parses relatively similar to that because I can do that consistently.


    I'm sorry rogues are fine isn't the answer you're looking for because you aren't that good at it, but they are.

    If you're looking to have more than one optimal spec for damage, you're probably looking at the wrong game right now. As it stands, each calling only has one "go to" spec.
    Last edited by Vyka; 04-02-2011 at 10:24 AM.
    WoW - Deadenlol/Cika/Vyka/Deaden - 6 Time Gladiator DK/Warrior/Rogue - Whisperwind (US)
    Rift - Deaden - Rogue - Lotham (US)
    DAoC - Fraletlan - r50 rr10 Smite Cleric - Iseult

    Dispelling rogue myths one at a time
    Yes, you can parse over 1k as a rogue.
    No, marksman is not an awful tree.
    Target dummies do not give an accurate representation of raid performance. Stop it.

  15. #15
    Champion Harkain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyka View Post
    Wow it's like someone ****ing stole your candy and you're just crying for the sake of it. This might seem cliche, but rogues are fine, learn to play.

    Yes raid DPS is substantially higher. Anthem of fervor is a big deal

    No, I wasn't active more than any other DPS. The DPS below me at 913 is actually *gasp* another nightblade.

    A controlled environment we can replicate? It's a ****ing target dummy that doesn't even take into account your execute phase. It's going go be skewed regardless. Why are you concerned about how well you can hit a target dummy when it's t2 and raid content that matters? I can go do a bunch of t2s when I get around to it and spout a bunch of parses relatively similar to that because I can do that consistently.


    I'm sorry rogues are fine isn't the answer you're looking for because you aren't that good at it, but they are.
    No one stole my candy but frankly if you say your preformance is hinged on others boosting it then there is something wrong. Now this looks like a perfect raid fight where you can stand and nuke it for 11 minutes but if you cant ?. dummies (as i said in the op) are not perfect and does not take into account various things but it is a controlled element where we can provide base results for every class without situational options that may or may not happend.

    Most of us dont need to l2p even if you think being carried by a bard is, we dont know what setup was used in the raid, not what debuffs was on etc, if you are gonna use raid dps parse as a example or fact then you need to provide more info like that, is that dps consistant on all raid bosses ? what debuffs was used ? what was the group setup (aka what buffs where you reciveing), what are your base stats, etc etc.

    yes you where active longer, check your uptime vs the others, i mean its even in your screenshot.

    I would love to see some t2 parses that show 1k dps, i have yet to see it as the mobs have far to little hp to let nightstalker realy be fully effective (for records its the build i mostly use). even better i would like to see a dummy parse for 5 minutes where you can provide abit better dps IN your raid gear.

    and please stop cussing, it makes you look like a redneck.
    Last edited by Harkain; 04-02-2011 at 10:29 AM.
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