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Thread: Blade Dancer based melee dps spec

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Blade Dancer based melee dps spec

    Hi all,

    Let me open by apologizing for not having any parses or similar data as I havenít hit level 50 yet. I will prepare more detailed analysis as soon as possible but I wanted to discuss this with the rogue community in the hopes that it would be of some benefit.

    That being said, if a kindly level 50 rogue wants to parse these for me, so much the better.

    The reason Iím drawn to this spec would be that it appears to have both the highest energy regen available as well as high mobility and flexibility for single target or cleave fights. Finally it has a number of very strong dps cooldowns.

    The spec Iím looking at is a BD/Sin/NB spec:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VMcxzb.V0xMho

    There is technically one floater point in Blade Dancer which Iíve placed in Sprint for mobility, but some may choose Counterbalance. This gets you to 32 pts and Double Coup. Weíve avoided all the ďdead pointsĒ that require the enemy to be actively attacking you in this spec.
    The rotation is a basic BD based:
    Keen Strike ->Precision Strike/Quick Strike ->Finisher while maintaining Expose Weakness as energy allows.

    Finishers would be Daunting Strike (if required), Baneful Touch, and Deadly Strike.

    Cooldowns are: Dancing Steel (AoE, also potentially useful to trivialize boss mechanics), Flashing Steel (for mobility and time on target), Blade Tempo (dps boost), Weapon Barrage (interrupt), Disassemble (if boss fight mechanics allow it), Double Coup (dps boost) and Sprint (mobility if you took it), Ebon Fury ( dps gain/burst).

    The main potential dps loss in this build is Ebon Fury. To me the combination of Ebon Fury and Deadly Dance (doing 4 CP Deadly Strikes) seems like a very strong dps boost every 2 mins on stand and burn fights, and seems amazing on fights with burst phases. In 15 seconds you should be able to get off 5 sets of Dusk Strike-Dusk Strike-Deadly Strike with the Dusk Strikes hitting for an additional 24%. However there will need to be parsed testing to see if this is actually better than just using a normal BD based rotation due to Vivacity and Blade and Fury talents.

    Another option Iíve been messing around with is:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VMcxcbM.V0x0b

    Which trades out Hellfire Blades and the Melted Skin dps boost for improved poison damage and the added utility of Leeching Poison on fight where trading dps for self-heals would be a benefit. IĒm not certain if the gain from opening with Dark Malady + a flat 2% dps boost (from Fire and Death Attunement) will be of more benefit then 2 more points in Poison Mastery.

    I do wish I could test these options myself, but Iím still some weeks away from 50 and Iím expecting the rogue class to see some changes by then.

    Now all this basically ignores the various optional abilities/finishers in Sin/NB. I wiill be testing various rotations as well as specs themselves once I hit 50, but my "gut feeling" is that the additive damage boosts in the BD tree will make using those abilities a superior option except under very specific circumstances.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple RadioFr33Europe's Avatar
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    I've just started trying a very similar build. The only thing I can suggest is to try and start combat from stealth with Dark Malady. It's easy enough to put in the BD combo macro.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Does Dusk Strike only enter the rotation when Ebon Fury is up?

    I'm curious about what Sin/NB skills to use as well. I'm leveling with mostly BD skills now so this is all new to me.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiatrog View Post
    Does Dusk Strike only enter the rotation when Ebon Fury is up?

    I'm curious about what Sin/NB skills to use as well. I'm leveling with mostly BD skills now so this is all new to me.
    Ewwww.... ok, a few issues, you have strange symbiosis errors like whoah throughout your build. You don't take dodge + parry abilities? My NB build will beat you when you aren't soloing. You have lost so many BD abilities that you need. BD doesn't do well unless you are being hit. But you don't even take the abilities to pick up that dmg speed when you do get hit. If you aren't getting hit, why aren't you going NB?

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Here, go with this build. Use Dancing Steel on CD with Sidesteps.... you can solo ~9mobs equal level and end up with almost full hp

    For regular mobs, you can shift in and out right quickly

    I can solo at lvl 48 rifts through both bonus stages and solo the elite boss with careful CD play. If you want a little more help, pick up rift guard in RS.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VMcxcbM.V0x0b

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lianne View Post
    Here, go with this build. Use Dancing Steel on CD with Sidesteps.... you can solo ~9mobs equal level and end up with almost full hp

    For regular mobs, you can shift in and out right quickly

    I can solo at lvl 48 rifts through both bonus stages and solo the elite boss with careful CD play. If you want a little more help, pick up rift guard in RS.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VMcxcbM.V0x0b
    I highly suggest you (and others like you) actually read the original post before replying. He was very clearly asking for input (and for 50s to help parse) this build in regards to end-game raiding. Not leveling. Not soloing. Therefore, the build you linked does nothing to help, and is likely not wanted here.

    To the OP: I'd recommend taking that 1 point in Poison Mastery and shifting it over to Puncture. Since the build is only utilizing one poison (I'm assuming Virulent, since the 5% crit debuff should be covered), the 5% increase to its damage is minor. The 2 CPs generated from Puncture (as well as the bleed, which boosts other DPS specs' damage, such as BMs) is far more useful. Using that same reasoning, I wouldn't recommend keeping up Baneful Touch. The damage boost it provides to Virulent Poison is likely far less than what an extra Deadly Strike would give (Deadly Strike itself hits harder than Baneful Touch, and +30% damage to your next CP generators is probably more than the total damage you'd gain from Baneful Touch with just Virulent Poison).

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valadar View Post
    I highly suggest you (and others like you) actually read the original post before replying. He was very clearly asking for input (and for 50s to help parse) this build in regards to end-game raiding. Not leveling. Not soloing. Therefore, the build you linked does nothing to help, and is likely not wanted here.
    If you will notice my prior post, dear sir, you will see that I was writing about how the abilities of BD are best built for soloing and leveling and tanking. NB and *** will outpace a BD build, that is what I was getting at. So please, next time you want to make a point, make a post about it, don't find a person to make a point out of.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Good stuff, Valadar.

    Any thoughts on openers, rotation, and finishers?

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lianne View Post
    If you will notice my prior post, dear sir, you will see that I was writing about how the abilities of BD are best built for soloing and leveling and tanking. NB and *** will outpace a BD build, that is what I was getting at. So please, next time you want to make a point, make a post about it, don't find a person to make a point out of.
    Um, combat efficiency is pretty good at making sure you dont lose dps to being out of energy.

    Theres a 2 point builder in BD, dusk strike for NB, and puncture for assassin. 40 energy vs 30 of a normal ability, but 40 vs 60 for combo points.

    Add the fiery spike proc from NB, and an NB/BD/sin can get another free combo points (energy wise, at least) While 15 points per finisher isnt much, finishers cost less with more combo points, and are basically refunding. If you use all 3 2-point finishers, and combat efficiency, you should rarely (if ever) actually run out of energy.

    Downside is its so high in the BD tree, you do have to give up certain other benefits... AoE can be handled by spamming the NB aoe attacks or the twin strike + AoE BD finisher if its only 2-3 enemies.

    You will likely give up things like improved stealth if you spec that way (from what im seeing in the forums, its been nerfed to uselessness this patch, so whoopdiefriggindoo), and have no room for gap closers, so you cant catch anything in pvp. However I was able to paste champs pretty quickly if they tried to cheesemacro me during the dodge buff.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks for the feedback all.

    Liane: One of my goals is to compare the various dps spec options at 50. The reason I'm leaning towards Blade Dancer is due to the utility options it provides (as well as the in-tree synergy).

    Wiatrog: I'd need to actually test it, but since Dusk Strike has a 10 sec cd normally, and doesn't benefit from any of the other talents that benefit Blade Dancer moves (the flat +10% buff among others), it would have to be a *very* strong move to warrant inclusion in an otherwise relatively easy rotation (see below).

    Valadar: The reason I avoided Puncture is that it doesn't carry an inherent bonus to it, so I'd need to see how it stacked up to the BD base CP generators. Basically I'd need to see "how the spec plays" in terms of energy generation and CP generation. That being said, I'd love to know how it (and Dusk Strike) compare to the other CP generators. That's also the reason I've avoided Backstab. When I hit 50 I'll pretty much go banklrupt running various tests to be certain of what works.

    The questions I'd like to test at this point include:

    1) Does Deadly Dance modify the entire damage of a CP generator (eg. for Puncture would it increase the initial damage *and* the bleed damage)

    2) What is the bleed behaviour in Rift? Do Bleeds stack, reset? How much of a dps loss (if any) would two Punctures in a row represent?
    This is also a concern for the actual dps benefit of Serrated Blades. Though this is behaviour I can test myself.

    3) Are damage multipliers additive or multiplicative? I'm tihnking about Dark Malady and Blade Tempo specifically.

    4) If you use a finisher after using Precisions Strike or Quick Strike, does Blade and Fury still adjust your next Keen Strike?

    5) How much of a dps loss is it to use a 4 pt finisher instead of a 5 pt? (specifically for maintaining a clean rotation as seen below).

    6) How do the other cp generators (specifically those unlocked by use of talent pts) compare to the BD ones?

    Now assuming that this spec isn't GCD capped, then I'd assume Puncture is a dps increase (CP to energy ratio being better then the equivalent Keen Strike + Quick Strike) in certain circumstances.

    Thus I come up with the following rotations:

    Boss fight (stand and burn, 6 min fight)

    Dark Malady into Flashing Steel and potentially Blade Tempo (assuming threat isn't an issue)
    Dauntless Strike (assuming you're there to provide the debuff)

    From there you follow this "basic" rotation:
    1:
    Puncture
    Keen Strike
    Precision Strike
    Finisher

    2:
    Keen Strike
    Quick Strike
    Keen Strike
    Quick Strike
    Finisher

    With it being basically 1-2-2-1-2-2 indefinitely (assuming it's a dps gain to maximize your 10sec cd moves). If the bonus from Blade and Fury doesn't carry over after a finisher, then my assumptiion would be that going to a 5 cp finisher by adding a buffed Keen Strike into the #2 rotation would be a dps gain. Given the dps bonus to Keen Strike after a Quick Strike, I'd assume that it wouldn't be worth trying to micromange your rotation to work Puncture in *every* time it's available.

    Good dicsussion so far! Thanks!

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lianne View Post
    Ewwww.... ok, a few issues, you have strange symbiosis errors like whoah throughout your build. You don't take dodge + parry abilities? My NB build will beat you when you aren't soloing. You have lost so many BD abilities that you need. BD doesn't do well unless you are being hit. But you don't even take the abilities to pick up that dmg speed when you do get hit. If you aren't getting hit, why aren't you going NB?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lianne View Post
    Here, go with this build. Use Dancing Steel on CD with Sidesteps.... you can solo ~9mobs equal level and end up with almost full hp

    For regular mobs, you can shift in and out right quickly

    I can solo at lvl 48 rifts through both bonus stages and solo the elite boss with careful CD play. If you want a little more help, pick up rift guard in RS.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VMcxcbM.V0x0b
    He wants to play bladedancer. Not nightblade. His build was pertaining to end game raiding, not leveling. Both of those points were made very clear if you'd actually read more than a few lines of his post and filled in the rest of the blanks with your own stupidity and assumptions. Also, the build you linked, is inferior to his first build.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Other than the puncture recommendation, I'm still unclear as to when to use Sin/NB moves.

    Do we use Dusk Strike at all? If not, is there a better use for the point in Ebon Fury?

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple RadioFr33Europe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiatrog View Post
    Other than the puncture recommendation, I'm still unclear as to when to use Sin/NB moves.

    Do we use Dusk Strike at all? If not, is there a better use for the point in Ebon Fury?
    I don't think you do use Sin/NB moves with the exception of Dark Malady as an opener. Keen Strike / Quick Strike / Precision Strike will do more damage and Deadly Strike as a finisher will add further damage.

    Maybe you could throw Expose Weakness in there if you remember.

    Here's what I'm running.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...A0soohbz.V0xMh

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    I'm running a very similiar build, except I have 32\19\15, skipping Ebon Fury for Puncture.

    Baneful Touch is not as good as just using Deadly Strike. Poison damage isn't a big add on DPS, whereas Deadly Strike is more damage instantly and 30% more damage to the next 2 CP moves.

    Puncture is a solid move. I put it in the rotation:
    Cast Puncture
    Cast Precision Strike
    Cast Quick Strike
    Cast Keen Strike

    Your bleeds won't interfere with other people's bleeds. There can be as many Punctures ticking as their are Rogues that have it AFAIK.

    I didn't put Dusk Strike in my rotation. I think I'll try to test that tonight. The damage is a bit worse, but not as bad typically as you might think since it's Death damage and not mitigated by armor. The CP generation is better, pushing you to a Deadly Strike faster (which regenerates energy and gives you the 30% buff to the next two moves sooner). I think there's a real efficiency game for increasing BD DPS by reducing the number of moves between Deadly Strikes.

  15. #15
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    Hmm, I think I should drop Poison Potency and grab Ebon Fury tbh.

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