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Thread: Is weapon damage normalized? Looking for actual testing done

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Is weapon damage normalized? Looking for actual testing done

    Ive been trying to figure this out for a while now, and I get mixed responses from many people. What im asking, is if i have an attack that is based off a weapon damage (IE the new sab ability) does the damage go off of the DPS of the weapon, or will i be shopping for a slow hard hitting epic weapon to boost the damage of abilities like this over daggers, whos individual hits are much lower.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    Weapon damage is normalized.

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    Champion Wake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    Weapon damage is normalized.
    Could you go into more detail?

    A prime example is fast Polearms vs. slow Two-handed Axes:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/item/C9DFDFA3...-the-Champions
    http://rift.zam.com/en/item/B9EF9A3B...27s-Battle-Axe

    Does min-max damage impact ability damage at all now, since it's "normalized"?
    If not, why do abilities state then weapon damage + x dmg or xx% weapon damage + x dmg if it doesn't count at all?
    Is it only counted for autoattacks now?

    Also, how does added melee dps from attack power through strenght/dexterity add damage to autoattacks and abilities (I guess it has to add damage somewhere, right?!)?

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    Telaran
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    WHat does Normalized mean? Was it abnormal before?

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    Rift Disciple Jabtangs's Avatar
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    if it was normalized, it would use the weapon's dps value as weapon damage. meaning doesn't matter which type of weapon you use as long as it has high dps.

    If it's not, it would mean better off with an axe (high damage but long cooltime) since skills don't care about that value.

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    Champion Wake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kortak View Post
    WHat does Normalized mean? Was it abnormal before?
    It meant (as far as I understand) that weapons that are slower (more delay) and therefore got more min- and max-dmg produced higher damage when autoattacking (of course) AND when using abilities (no matter if on the gcd or off the gcd).

    Trion supposedly changed that, so abilities should do the same or roughly the same damage no matter which delay and min-max-dmg.

    Which doesn't quite add up, if you read the ability descriptions that say weapon dmg + x or xxx% weapon dmg + x in some cases.
    Last edited by Wake; 03-30-2011 at 08:48 AM.

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    Rift Disciple bodr's Avatar
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    At WAAAAKE example:

    Sentinel's Battle Axe
    Damage per Second: 38.0
    101-188 damage every 3.8 seconds

    FIRST line Damage per Second: 38.0 this dmg affect to ability (Weapon dmg + xxx)
    SECOND line 101-188 damage every 3.8 seconds - this is Autoattack.

    So you both example have normalised DPS 38.0 and 38.2
    As IM see that

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    it's based on the dps value of the weapon. This was changed some time in alpha due to rogues saying what is the point of daggers when they could use axes and do more dmg.

    The tooltips/descriptions have not been reworded to reflect this. Not a big shock there.

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    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    I tested this with the dagger and axe from expert IT. They have almost identical DPS but the axe has higher min and max damage since it is slower.

    I recorded 100 noncrit backstabs with one weapon in my mainhand and the other offhanded, the switched and did the same. I made sure to maintain the same buffs and AP for the duration (clicking off the 10% buff after a crit,etc)

    The average damage for Backstab with either weapon was the same. I tested with Blast Charge and got similar results.

    So yep, attacks are normalized to DPS.

    <Ascendant> 13/13 Seastone Defiant

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    Rift Chaser Zylla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roguetanklol View Post
    Ive been trying to figure this out for a while now, and I get mixed responses from many people. What im asking, is if i have an attack that is based off a weapon damage (IE the new sab ability) does the damage go off of the DPS of the weapon, or will i be shopping for a slow hard hitting epic weapon to boost the damage of abilities like this over daggers, whos individual hits are much lower.
    Ok so from my understanding, that's not the speed but how hard it hits for that. The deal with weapon speed is that it only affects apply poisons and auto attacking and auto attacking can end up being a dps increase.

    So assuming everything you read on the internets is true...depending on rogue spec, hard hitting low weapon in MH and fast thing in offhand for white attacks/poison so you can murder something quickly once in melee range?
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    np feel free to ask. The general forums are useful, but we argue in other threads to pass the time at work

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    Ascendant -Swag-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyth View Post
    This was changed some time in alpha due to rogues saying what is the point of daggers when they could use axes and do more dmg.
    This was a big problem in Vanguard as well (which was likely the source of the argument in Alpha).

    I think showing both a damage range and a damage per second calculation is confusing and somewhat irrelevant, much like how the Attack Power tooltip shows (showed?) how much your damage per second was increased. If damage per second = the value being used to calculate the damage for ability attacks, it should simply be called Damage.

    If someone actually cares what their auto attack damage per second is (unlikely), they can calculate it themselves.
    Noco@Wolfsbane

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zylla View Post
    Ok so from my understanding, that's not the speed but how hard it hits for that. The deal with weapon speed is that it only affects apply poisons and auto attacking and auto attacking can end up being a dps increase.

    So assuming everything you read on the internets is true...depending on rogue spec, hard hitting low weapon in MH and fast thing in offhand for white attacks/poison so you can murder something quickly once in melee range?
    As a Rogue you want the highest dps weapon, no matter the max dmg it has. For weapon procs (poison or other enchantments) you want fast weapons as I'm quite certain those trigger from auto attacks as well.

    So if you have weapon enchants fast high dps weapons, here you might not want to swap in that shiny dagger for a small dps increase if it means a much slower weapon.

    Without enchants or other attack triggered effects you just want the highest possible dps on your weapons.

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara Zikkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    Weapon damage is normalized.
    Sweet mind commenting on the way Charge blaster now works in the Sabo thread pretty please.

    -Soon A developer term that is never as "soon" as you want it to be.

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    Shadowlander Istarien's Avatar
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    Related question: has anyone figured out for sure if the "weapon damage" value used to determine skill damage is based on mainhand melee weapon, whatever you happen to be holding at the time, or some conglomeration of everything you have equipped? This is mainly relevant for Bards, Sabs, and other classes whose skills do "weapon damage" but can be used with any weapon, be it melee or ranged.
    "So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their ending." ~JRR Tolkien
    Lords of the Dead

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara
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    Ive been trying to figure this out for a while now, and I get mixed responses from many people.
    This has changed several times. Currently, weapon damage is fully normalized with respect to attack speed for ability attacks and all non-attack abilities that use weapon damage that I've tested (STRIKE BACK). E.g., "weapon DPS" is used.

    Poisons and NB enchants that explicitly say "XX% chance on hit" are not normalized with respect to attack speed. Other procs such as those on Greater Planar Essences, I don't know, but they are probably normalized for weapon speed. Whether that carries for both proc rate on ability attacks (advantage to slow weapons) or just autoattacks (expected, balanced), I don't know.


    In sum, use daggers.

    Edit: I don't know how the new Charge Boost is calculated, but my assumption would be that it is normalized for weapon delay like everything else.
    Last edited by EasymodeX; 03-30-2011 at 12:11 PM.

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