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Thread: Another lazy bard complaining about Motifs and an idea.

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Another lazy bard complaining about Motifs and an idea.

    I know there is some disagreement on Motifs. Either they are good as they are or they are too much clicking. I come somewhere in the middle.

    I played a bard in Everquest, and Rift does not come close to the maintenance requirement of bards from that game, so that is good. However, the tapping of five keys over five seconds (longer for lazy players like me) is not really fun. I really enjoy the bard class. It is entertaining, survivable and useful. The only detriment is the lackluster way Motifs are used.

    I am no expert on Rift, but I have played a great many games and I play them for the fun. If I can find a class like the bard that I enjoy and increase the enjoyment by removing the tedium, I call that a win. Now, I can look at using an expensive keyboard to solve my issue, but is this really the right solution? Or should there be a game mechanic that fits both the vision of the developer and the ease of use of lazy players like me? I like the second choice.

    Here is my idea: Add a finisher to the bard somewhere after the 28 point mark. For one combo point, it casts/refreshes Motif of Bravery. For two points, Bravery and Focus. Three: Bravery, Focus and Regeneration, Four: Bravery, Focus, Regeneration and Tenacity. Five: Bravery, Focus, Regeneration, Tenacity and Grandeur. Now, a bard can still keep up with Motifs through normal casting, or they can devote their combo points to maintaining buffs as a trade-off.

    Once again, I like the Bard class, and I want to maintain my enjoyment. I hope this post is not seen as a complaint. While there are some balance issues with Rift, Trion has made a game that I thoroughly enjoy. Please keep up the good work, Trion.

    Please offer your constructive comments about this.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Gray's Avatar
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    imho, bard is fine.

    compared to other classes, we still have the same or less amount of buttons to press. 2 skills to build combo points + finisher, while others have to spam more. we just have 5 skills every 30 secs mixed in. bard "maintenance" is just done in a different way (= way more relaxed, which is absolutely fine).

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    I would like to see Mofits have a buff time of 3-5 min. Casting them every fight is a bit much. Even if this was earned with talent points.

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Or at least remove the global cool down.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    I like the idea of a finisher that will automatically cast your motifs.

    I also like the idea of removing the global cool down for motifs.

    Both of those ideas have merit to me, however, since upgrading my motifs to last 30 seconds, I don't have a problem keeping them refreshed anymore. Since I'm mainly hitting cadence a couple of times then a finisher...I just keep an eye on when my motifs are about to expire and then switch to refresh them...then go back to my cadence+finisher routine.

    I also played a bard in EQ. Nothing has come close to that experience...especially not the bards in EQ2. It was extremely challenging and incredibly fun. The bards in Rift have been the only class that has remotely come close to that same experience.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    I can only assume bards complain about this so much because they would like more GCD's to build combo points and use codas right? but doesn't this go against the entire idea of the class? doing damage should not be your focus. helping your group, and using your GCD's as needed is what should and shouldn't constitute a good or bard bard. this also puts the skill cap for bards fairly high. On the other hand. having to put 4 different buffs up every 30seconds takes up effectively 1/6 of your time in combat if you keep them all up all the time.

    My solution... either reduce the skill cap and the rewards for bards, such as putting two of the motifs on one button and the other two on another with a smaller buff. If changing anything would cause a balance issue, then explain to the community that they rolled a support class, and they should use their GCD's effectively. L2P

    -Anthony

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyFTW View Post
    I can only assume bards complain about this so much because they would like more GCD's to build combo points and use codas right? but doesn't this go against the entire idea of the class? doing damage should not be your focus. helping your group, and using your GCD's as needed is what should and shouldn't constitute a good or bard bard. this also puts the skill cap for bards fairly high. On the other hand. having to put 4 different buffs up every 30seconds takes up effectively 1/6 of your time in combat if you keep them all up all the time.

    My solution... either reduce the skill cap and the rewards for bards, such as putting two of the motifs on one button and the other two on another with a smaller buff. If changing anything would cause a balance issue, then explain to the community that they rolled a support class, and they should use their GCD's effectively. L2P

    -Anthony

    Nope, I would settle for a one button channel while moving, so it puts motifs up 1 at a time. no one wants them up faster so they can do more damage, its just ANNOYING to do it every 30 sec.

    This is a game right?

  8. #8
    Plane Walker diiorio's Avatar
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    Seems to be alot of Non bards making these comments. THE bards purpose is support and most of therre support has been nerfed. Now you see clerics not doing as well when a bard isnt backig nthem up and peopel *****ig nbecause they died, not relizing how much the bard covered their butts.

    IT will be changed back, trust me.
    NOTICE:
    I would be glad to give you some cheese with your whine. However there is a milk shortage. All the cows felt sorry for you and cried you a river, and drowned.

    Poor cows.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    I like the idea of a talent in bard that would refresh motifs upon the use of your finishers as well.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kytrarewn View Post
    I like the idea of a talent in bard that would refresh motifs upon the use of your finishers as well.
    Ya its a nice idea but I would rather it just have a longer buff duration. I played a pally in WoW and we had 30 second buff. Then WoW changed them to 5 min buffs and that was awesome. Then with items we could cast a 30 min buff. Then they removed the item to cast the 30 min buff and we could just cast it. I hope Rifts follows this line of thinking.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by diiorio View Post
    Seems to be alot of Non bards making these comments. THE bards purpose is support and most of therre support has been nerfed. Now you see clerics not doing as well when a bard isnt backig nthem up and peopel *****ig nbecause they died, not relizing how much the bard covered their butts.

    IT will be changed back, trust me.
    Ya that happened to us last night in DD. Cleric felt bad for how much she could not keep up to the healing. We had to have the Chlormancer and the cleric healing at the same time with a level 27 tank killing level 24 mobs. What the heck?

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    I like where your going with this like if you spec into it 5 points it turns into one spell thats a 5 second cast and puts all motifs on then you go back to doing what you were doing

    its not that we hate putting motifs up just why do we have to push 5 seperate buttons spread all across my keyboard every 30 seconds

    and like most bards im probably about to buy a razor naga mouse or a g15 keyboard and fix this if trion doesnt can't stand it

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanfoodle View Post
    Ya its a nice idea but I would rather it just have a longer buff duration. I played a pally in WoW and we had 30 second buff. Then WoW changed them to 5 min buffs and that was awesome. Then with items we could cast a 30 min buff. Then they removed the item to cast the 30 min buff and we could just cast it. I hope Rifts follows this line of thinking.
    I think a lot of bards would agree that this should not happen. The buffs are a part of playing a bard, as well as refreshing those buffs. If they got extended to minute, that wouldn't be too much of a change. But they need to be refreshed often to keep the bard feel. Even lowering the GCD just for bard buffs to a shorter GCD would be great, but they shouldn't be made 5 minutes.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanfoodle View Post
    Ya its a nice idea but I would rather it just have a longer buff duration. I played a pally in WoW and we had 30 second buff. Then WoW changed them to 5 min buffs and that was awesome. Then with items we could cast a 30 min buff. Then they removed the item to cast the 30 min buff and we could just cast it. I hope Rifts follows this line of thinking.
    I usually roll with a Mage/Chloromancer so rarely bard, but when I do I find myself holding 5CP on the mob (since our debuffs do not stack with other comparable debuffs) while spamming cadence for passive healing and refreshing motifs anyway and waiting for a groupwide burst to use Coda of Restoration and whatever that terrible 2 minute cooldown is that heals for like 700 damage (which should really be doubled or more Trion, if you're listening).

    Allowing damaging finishers to refresh motifs (even if only when they crit) would go a long way to making the class more interesting to play.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    With 6 mofits here is the problem. With global refresh by the time you have cast the last mofit you have 18 seconds to do other stuff. So that means I need to recast 6 buffs twice a min. Now lets break that down. 6 buff x 2 = 12 key strokes. Now myself I normally game 2-4 hours at one time, so thats 12 keystrokes x 60 min x 2 hours = 1440 keystrokes or if I play for 4 hours that 2880 keystrokes. This is a little out of hand and heading to carpel tunnel. Now I dont mind casting mofits but one of a few things need to happen. Remove the global refresh so it does not take me 12 seconds to cast them all. Add the mofits to be auto triggered by other abilities like the OP suggested. Or make the buff last a few min so I dont need to cast them once for every fight. Once every few fights would be tolerable.
    Last edited by Nanfoodle; 04-02-2011 at 04:08 PM.

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