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Thread: Blood and Fire melee DPS build- need further experimentation!

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Blood and Fire melee DPS build- need further experimentation!

    I've been working at coming up with a functional post-patch melee DPS spec lately. After reading the thread here: http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...lade-the-specs. , I wanted to test them against my previous best spec.

    The two specs I tested were the two Nightblade-oriented specs with the most data I could use to imitate them:

    Naronas "single target king": http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...hqgMos.0VMcx0o
    Dynamis "highest single target rogue build": http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0Vx0oc.0VMcx0b

    Spent a bunch of time trying these builds, looking to get to a place where I can optimize before I start really coming into my own, gearwise. I've had a homebrew spec that I've been working with, but wanted to compare it to specs that other people have mentioned.

    PLEASE NOTE: Currently I have primarily blue instance gear, with no T1 plaque pieces but two T1 purple weapons, so all of my parses are well below the possible levels for a given spec. That being said, I made my own shots at each of the above.


    As a control, I spent 15 minutes practicing the spec, then went and ran an expert T1, then practiced for another 30 minutes on the dummy before putting together my parses, just to be sure I had the rotations down (at the end of it, I nabbed myself a new tanking piece, yay!). I used ~100,000 damage as my benchmark - if that number is abnormally low, let me know.

    With Naronas' spec, I pulled 532 DPS, and with Dynamis', I pulled 518, although his has some energy management and timing challenges that I don't think I quite mastered, which pulled my numbers down.

    I was surprised to find that they compared favorably with my homebrew spec, which has a significant number of "wasted" points in utility abilities. Because of that, I thought I'd share it here.

    The spec is here: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...os.GVRft0foz0R

    I'm unsure how to upload a parse in any meaningful way, but I'm parsing at 541 DPS with it. While I have some more familiarity with the spec, it's one that I only came up with a few hours ago while theorycrafting, so I don't exactly have days/weeks of practice with it (and the reason I used the testing methodology I did was because that's what I did when testing the above spec).

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    Some notes:

    Many of the points in the build are flexible, particularly the utility ones. The key points are having the roughly 26 points of Nightblade DPS talents and 32 points in Assassin (for Impale).

    Riftstalker is there solely for the zero-point teleport, which I find very useful.

    There is a LOT of random utility in the build. Among other things, it has two CCs that can be used simultaneously and that don't put pulls into combat (unlike, say, Transmogrify), as well as FOUR in-combat control abilities, in the form of Dark Containment, Blinding Powder, Foul Play and (in a pinch) Dusk to Dawn. It also has Slip Away which can be used defensively or offensively, and quick stealth (which is suboptimal but fun).

    The original goal of the build was to come up with a hybrid spec that would be primarily melee but not leave me useless if I had to go to range, which it more or less fails miserably at, although I've considered taking zero-point Ranger just to have a ranged rotation in case of emergencies.

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    The "Rotation":

    The build doesn't exactly have a set rotation; it's more like a series of priorities. There's a lot to manage, and a set rotation doesn't quite satisfy. The basic goals are as follows, in order of importance:

    --Impale is ticking
    --Scourge is on cooldown
    --Fiery Spike is ticking
    --Puncture is ticking
    --Dusk Strike is on cooldown

    Final Blow is used when other finishers aren't available/needed, and Savage Strike is used as a generic CP builder. A variant is probably possible where Blazing Strike replaces Final Blow, but I selected Final Blow/Savage Strike due to the flat damage increases (Improved Final Blow, Double Cross) rather than the reliance on crit/procs. This build uses enough different finishers that it's not realistic to use Blazing Strike to upkeep Fiery Spike via Lingering Flame, so instead you weave in a Fiery Spike periodically to refresh the DoT.

    Open with Dark Malady, and get Impale up as quickly as possible. If you have a short fight and REALLY want to exploit Dark Malady, open with it, then immediately Slip Away and Jagged Strike, then Impale. From what I can tell, the bonus from Dark Malady is checked when the DoT is applied or refreshed, but not between ticks, and talented Impale lasts for a goodly while. This is only really relevant on short fights, however, and it's generally better to keep Slip Away for some other use.

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    Overall, it's a surprisingly effective spec that I find quite a lot of fun to play (because it has a lot of useful utility), but I'd be curious to see how other people fare with it, and I'd be interested in hearing people's tweaks. One thing I'd like to be able to pull off is fitting Expose Weakness into the cycle, but it's very expensive for the amount of time that it lasts, and doesn't seem to be worth it.
    Last edited by Tamrielo; 03-29-2011 at 10:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    TL;DR version:

    Seeing very high parses with this build: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...os.GVRft0foz0R

    Relative to the other post-1.1 melee DPS parses, I'm seeing very competitive numbers, and am interested in seeing what people think, especially because the build gets a lot of useful utility compared to other "top DPS" melee builds.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker MadGelo's Avatar
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    you people take too many useless skills that you dont need for pve melee dps
    *******************************
    Adapt or Die
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  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadGelo View Post
    you people take too many useless skills that you dont need for pve melee dps
    Did you even read my post? I addressed that exact thing.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker MadGelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamrielo View Post
    Did you even read my post? I addressed that exact thing.
    i saw your spec

    hence the post
    Last edited by MadGelo; 03-30-2011 at 06:30 AM.
    *******************************
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  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadGelo View Post
    i saw your spec

    hence the post
    Hahahaha, oh wow. The TL;DR version of the post really brought out the snap judgements.

    Oh well, happy to do as much damage with my "wasted points" build as I'm seeing from builds with none of the utility. Small wonder that people just leave their research to themselves most of the time.

    Anyone have *constructive* feedback?

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Khroul's Avatar
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    Hrm. Too bad Melee is pretty worthless in PVE, even if this spec was great it wouldn't really matter.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    Dynamis here. Here's my DPS on target dummy with my spec in OP's post.

    http://img860.imageshack.us/i/78562449.jpg/

    At top left of picture.

    It was actually around 715~, had to run out of combat so meter popped up.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    Would like to know what "very high parses" are with the tldr version.

    My build at 50 with level 45-50 blues and a t1 equiv crafted neck does 570 dps using a 21.8 dps MH and 20.8 dps OH. My build at 50 is also completely different than the tldr version as well as the builds posted above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamis View Post
    Dynamis here. Here's my DPS on target dummy with my spec in OP's post.

    http://img860.imageshack.us/i/78562449.jpg/

    At top left of picture.

    It was actually around 715~, had to run out of combat so meter popped up.
    Would like to know what kind of stats you have as well as weapons you're using.
    Last edited by Planbee; 03-30-2011 at 07:18 AM.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planbee View Post
    Would like to know what "very high parses" are with the tldr version.

    My build at 50 with level 45-50 blues and a t1 equiv crafted neck does 570 dps using a 21.8 dps MH and 20.8 dps OH. My build at 50 is also completely different than the tldr version as well as the builds posted above.



    Would like to know what kind of stats you have as well as weapons you're using.
    From the top post: Using Dynamis' build, I (after some more practice this morning) was pulling 525 DPS, and with my own was pulling 540.

    I'm in largely quested DPS gear, half of it is tank-oriented (because I'm primarily a tank and have been spending my plaques/cash on tanking gear), so my DPS stats are significantly lower than someone with appropriate DPS gear. I am sitting on ~130 hit, however.

    Because I don't have the gear to test, I can't really see how high this spec's potential is. My parse of 540 vs Dynamis' parse of 700+ likely has a lot to do with our relative gear disparity, but also possibly quite a bit to do with the builds themselves, which is something I'd like to drill down on.

    Planbee, is your spec a Saboteur-based spec? I didn't mention it in the OP, but due to the changes in 1.1 to Sab I was attempting to make a build that wasn't going to see significant DPS decreases after the patch.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    No it's not a sab build. I'm using a melee spec as well but dipping into the ranger tree for a lot of self buffs as well as a dps boost from the pet. Here's the spec.

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