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Thread: Tested a few specs tonight, parses inc.; main prob I see is rogues are energy starved

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    Plane Walker
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    Default Tested a few specs tonight, parses inc.; main prob I see is rogues are energy starved

    I've been fiddling with a variety of specs to see what I can find to produce the best single target DPS (pre 1.1, and non sabo spec) for a relatively poorly geared level 50. I used the parser for Rift Junkies to record the data and all tests were done on a level 50 boss training dummy.

    Tonight I tried this 51 ranger/15 nightblade/0 assassin spec and this 41 nightblade/18 assassin/6 ranger spec. Both these were specs I have seen posted here, but I can't recall by who so sorry I cant give credit where credit is due for the spec.

    My gear is mediocre (at best), mostly level 50 blues with just 1 epic from a heroic. My bow is 26.5 DPS. My MH weapon is a 26.4 DPS dagger and my off hand is 20.8 DPS dagger (both 1.8 speed). My self-buffed stats were: AP = 334, Crit = 421 (21%), and Hit = 151 (30%). I tried a variety of self-buffs including Predatory Instincts, Hellfire Blades, Feral Instincts and Virulent Poison. I found received the best DPS boost from Predatory Instincts and Hellfire Blades (granted the difference was marginal).

    Here is how the ranger spec performed
    My average DPS was 340 and my pet's was 150, for a total DPS of 490. I tried various rotations including the following attacks (not necessarily in this order): Shadow Fire, Splinter Shot, Piercing Shot, Crippling Shot, Quick Shot, Headshot. I also tried rotations that excluded Shadow Fire and Splinter Shot (testing removal of each individually then together). I found when I did not include Shadow Fire and/or Splinter Shot my DPS dropped by about 10-15. I also used Feral Aggression when it was up.

    Once I got the hang of it the rotation was pretty simple. I just spammed quick shot and refreshed Splinter Shot and Shadow Fire when their cooldowns were up and sprinkled in some Penetrating Shot and Crippling Shot when their cooldowns were up. Every 5 points I finished with Head Shot.

    The biggest limiting factor to improving the DPS with this spec was my energy regeneration rate. After about the second rotation from the onset of battle I found myself constantly low on energy and waiting even for the 30 energy needed for a Quick Shot. Sometimes I had to wait 1-1.5 seconds for my energy to regenerate enough to perform an action, especially for the costlier 45 point abilities.

    Here is how the nightblade/assassin spec performed
    My average DPS was 550. I tried various rotations, but eventually settled on one that worked which incorporated the following attacks: Fiery Spike, Puncture, Primal Strike, Dark Strike, Blazing Strike, Ebon Fury, Scourge of Darkness, and Expose Weakness + Dark Malady for openers. Once I got a good flow going it was a fairly easy rotation of spamming Primal Strikes and refreshing Puncture and Dark Strike and a 5 point Blazing Strike finisher (to refersh the 3 stacks of Fiery Spike). Toss in the other items on their cooldowns and you get into a groove.

    The biggest limiting factor to improving the DPS with this spec was my energy regeneration rate. After about the second rotation from the onset of battle I found myself constantly low on energy and waiting even for the 30 energy needed for a Primal Strike. Sometimes I had to wait 1-1.5 seconds for my energy to regenerate enough to perform an action (sound familiar?).

    Conclusions
    Overall I would say if you are looking for a rogue DPS build and sabo or assassin heavy builds aren't your thing, and your a fairly new level 50 looking for something to work for heroics, either one of these specs would work. Personally, I liked the 51 point ranger build for soloing (it makes soloing for quests, etc. a cake walk) and if I need to AE in a dungeon (using Raid of Arrows and Trick Shot) or a boss encounter isn't melee friendly it gets the job done. otherwise, the Nightblade heavy build seems to come out ahead of the ranger build for single target DPS. Also of note, the Nightblade heavy build would further pull away from the Ranger build because of the Nightstalker Talent increasing damage by 30% once a mob's health drops below 30% (something I couldn't test on the dummies).

    I know we hear a lot of complaints from rogues that our damage is subpar compared to, well, pretty much every other calling. IMO this is primarily due to our energy regeneration rate being too slow (or our abilities costing too much, take your pick). While testing these two specs tonight I felt the biggest limiting factor to me adding DPS was my slow energy rate leaving me often starved for energy ad having to wait 1.5 seconds to regen enough energy to perform a 1 second ability.

    Hope you find this helpful.
    Last edited by Godzillamax; 03-29-2011 at 08:32 PM.

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    Ascendant Naronas's Avatar
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    Rogues are SUPPOSED to be energy starved. "White" damage is a big part of our damage, in filler dps time. If we wern't energy starved, whats the point of energy at all?

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    Rift Chaser mercilous's Avatar
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    Too bad white damage is almost nonexistent. On mobs my white damage crits are ~150. On geared players, it's nearly half as much. I don't have energy issues when playing BD/Sin but as a Sin/Infil or Sin/NB, I can run out of energy before I even finish my first rotation, given the situation.
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    Rift Master Solbranthius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naronas View Post
    Rogues are SUPPOSED to be energy starved. "White" damage is a big part of our damage, in filler dps time. If we wern't energy starved, whats the point of energy at all?
    Our white damage is rather low, however. It's nothing to write home about, nor is it anything to rely upon beyond a tiny increase in DPS.

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    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Please be aware that the RJ parser is *NOT* reliable for DPS. The value it shows is a snapshot of your DPS over the last few seconds, not the entire fight. A lucky string of crits can vastly overrepresent one spec over another.
    Last edited by Carthoris; 03-29-2011 at 08:47 PM.

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    Rift Disciple NeVeRLiFt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carthoris View Post
    Please be aware that the RJ parser is *NOT* reliable for DPS. The value it shows is a snapshot of your DPS over the last few seconds, not the entire fight. A lucky string of crits can vastly overrepresent one spec over another.
    I've tested with ACT and Riftjunkies.
    ACT usually shows me higher dps parses.

    I take either one of them with a grain of salt right now thou.
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    Rift Disciple CrixusAndricles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naronas View Post
    Rogues are SUPPOSED to be energy starved. "White" damage is a big part of our damage, in filler dps time. If we wern't energy starved, whats the point of energy at all?
    I'd agree with this if we actually did enough burst during our first rotation to warrant the energy starvation that follows.

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    Rift Chaser Unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrixusAndricles View Post
    I'd agree with this if we actually did enough burst during our first rotation to warrant the energy starvation that follows.
    i second this ^
    Baaaaah

  9. #9
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    Im not 50 yet but my autoattacks dont do jack. From other threads and testing people have done, even with the 50% increase to autoattack damage, its still pretty pitiful.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara
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    Energy starved meet 10% energy cost reduction on abilitys provided by Chloros or bard?


    Er,
    Not trying to troll.
    I just consider it a vital part of a rogues DPS to have access to that.
    Since i 100% agree with the energy issues, and that goes A LONGGGGGG way to helping them.
    Last edited by scfs123; 03-29-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfs123 View Post
    Energy starved meet 10% energy cost reduction on abilitys provided by Chloros or bard?


    Er,
    Not trying to troll.
    I just consider it a vital part of a rogues DPS to have access to that.
    Since i 100% agree with the energy issues, and that goes A LONGGGGGG way to helping them.
    It helps. But trust me, it's not enough. I find myself energy starved after 1 rotation EVERY fight, EVERY trashpull and EVERY boss. It is not that I am using too expensive abilities. After 1 rotation all but one combopoint builder is on cooldown. I fire away one shot (swift shot), wait 1,5 seconds, fire away another shot, wait 1,5 seconds, fire a third shot, wait 3 seconds, Splinter Shot (gives 2 combopoints). Since last ability has cast time, my energy gets to regenerate to be able to instantly get a deadeye shot off. Repeat from first rotation, only to be starved to the second... sigh. So boring when you have to wait all the freaking time, and the dps is **** due to too much downtime.

    I get why we should be energy starved sometimes. Sometimes we pull big cooldowns to do more dmg and the result is a little energy starvation. But why in the hell does our weakest damage ability which builds only one combo point make us energy starved. We must have something to fall back on after we pull those cooldown abilities.

    Excuse me for being kind of QQish but I rolled a marksman at launch and it was so fun and a great leveling experience. But once fights were longer than one dps rotation, it all went south from there. I still have high hopes for the game. But I don't want to reroll because one calling was overly nerfed before launch. Playing bard is fun, and the only useful spec atm, and the bonus dps I provide the rest of the group ads up to more than I would do in the marksman soul. I just crafted the Hawk's Talon (epic bow) in hopes for a day when ranged rogue dps is viable again.

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  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    As a ranger I see a lot less "white" damage from my bow than I do from my daggers. If auto attacks did more damage, we wouldn't be spamming abilities so much, which would lead to timing our abilities between autos to maximize dps. I think either an increase to the regen rate or a decrease to the energy costs would fix things just fine.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naronas View Post
    Rogues are SUPPOSED to be energy starved. "White" damage is a big part of our damage, in filler dps time. If we wern't energy starved, whats the point of energy at all?
    I'd actually wager that this is the root of our problems, that they tweaked rogues to where we are when auto attack still benefited from attack power, and before weapons were normalized, and now that both of these changes have happened we're in this situation where we have low white dmg (4%-6% of total dmg) and low dmg skills that we can't afford to spam.
    Our energy regeneration rate effectively gives us a 1.5sec GCD after the first 8 seconds of any fight.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Grats on your findings.

    A shame they will be meaningless when patch 1.1 releases today.

    if you dont know why, go read the patchnotes.
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    lud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carthoris View Post
    Please be aware that the RJ parser is *NOT* reliable for DPS. The value it shows is a snapshot of your DPS over the last few seconds, not the entire fight. A lucky string of crits can vastly overrepresent one spec over another.
    They work fine actually, if you time it and check the total damage you will get within 10dps shown when divided, it also tracks well as the damage done in a warfront is equal to that shown on the scores board.

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