+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 43

Thread: Trion - You're not getting it

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    300

    Default Trion - You're not getting it

    - You haven't nerfed warriors hard enough. All souls should give LESS dps than mages and rogues. Not more, not equal, less. If you told someone, "you can either do 600 dps with leather, or you can do 600 dps with plate" which do you think they would choose?

    - Ok great, you buffed mages good they needed it. But you have not made any changes to Marksman, Bladedancer, Assassin, or Ranger. These souls just pretty much suck for PvE right now. After the patch everyone is just going to go NB.

    Most people, if they knew what this class would be like compared to others at level 50, would not have rolled a rogue.
    "We've got a particularly troublesome ability on Saboteurs that's causing them to do better damage in the game than anybody else." -- Scott Hartsman

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Whats funny is that they took the time to buff paragon. We sure have some highly logical,
    intelligent and talented people working on this game, truly.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    809

    Default

    "you can either do 600 dps with leather, or you can do 600 dps with plate" which do you think they would choose?
    If you then said "as plate you'll have more defenses, but as leather you'll be able to escape from a battle when you want" the choice will come down to playstyle. You're oversimplifying something that you apparently want to be that simple.

  4. #4
    Ascendant phoenixfire82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,774

    Default

    The whole plate vs chain vs leather vs cloth thing is old hat bros. There's really no advantage to any armor type that isn't compensated for by class mechanics of a different armor type. All 4 callings should have at least a couple of specs that can parse very similar numbers.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    280

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Liper View Post
    If you then said "as plate you'll have more defenses, but as leather you'll be able to escape from a battle when you want" the choice will come down to playstyle. You're oversimplifying something that you apparently want to be that simple.
    I assume you're talking about Slip Away, which is located high in the tree of one rogue soul. It also won't let you escape from anybody with a brain as it only confers 3 seconds of damage immunity, and most people are smart enough to put DoTs on you to knock you back out of stealth. The only way it's reliable is if you go 40 points into assassin for Hidden Veil (a reactive on a 1 minute cooldown) that lets you stay in stealth for 15 seconds even if you're taking damage, but going that far into assassin gimps you out of the necessary spell interrupt from Bladedancer and the necessary ports from Riftstalker that prevent you from being kited into oblivion.

    In short, using one ability from one soul that isn't even that reliable in the first place is a completely asinine justification for rogues having no niche at all in this game as long as warriors can do comparable DPS.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple bakedspaghetti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    183

    Default

    oops wrong thread i loveyou
    Last edited by bakedspaghetti; 03-26-2011 at 02:59 PM.
    4LOKO, NOW IN LUNCHABLES

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser LunaticWoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Liper View Post
    If you then said "as plate you'll have more defenses, but as leather you'll be able to escape from a battle when you want" the choice will come down to playstyle. You're oversimplifying something that you apparently want to be that simple.
    This is true sort of. The question is more like Would you like Plate armor and potentially double DPS single target or Half DPS and in PvP you may be able to escape?

    Assassin and Nightblade are still good for getting away / Burst damage ganking

    As they should be. The problem is the nerfs/buffs arn't thinking of the other souls or the combined PvE/PvP ramifcations.

    Rogue as a whole can do the following

    Tank (when you have the gear)
    Support Heal (but now being severely nerfed)
    Gank DPS

    Now me being a PvP'er im alright with whats going on as far as world PvP goes... Warfront PvP though is a different story its basically go mage or warrior to DPS or roll a Bard or roll a NB to grab flags and such..

    Now what about PvE? People ask for a DPS for dungeons and yeah.... There is Zero reason to have a Rogue minus bard. Warriors (good/well geared) I have seen do 1200+ Single Target DPS, AE DPS around 2400+ depending on the pack. Rogues... 500-600ish Single Target and 1400-2200 Burst AE DPS.... Oh and in a PvE environment they have plate.... we have leather...
    LunaticWoda
    Deepstrike Server
    eXotic Occult
    www.exoticoccult.com

  8. #8
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    809

    Default

    What I'm saying is that he's simplifying it to a point that's just reductio ad absurdum

    In short, using one ability from one soul that isn't even that reliable in the first place is a completely asinine justification for rogues having no niche at all in this game as long as warriors can do comparable DPS.
    No this wasn't a comparison of rogues vs warriors, this was pointing out that his argument was overly simplified.

    Warrior dps souls should be able to do comparable dps. just like a rogue defensive soul should be a comparable tank. Not quite as good but comparable.

    I'm not going to compare apples to oranges like soo many want to, only like to like.

    For every loss/gain in DPS when you compare a rogue to a war, there should be a counter utility/hp/defense gain/loss.

    These changes are addressing that.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    709

    Default

    you would think people would pick something they enjoy playing not what their possible end game DPS could be... damn who the hell would play a game for fun...

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    809

    Default

    There is Zero reason to have a Rogue minus bard. Warriors (good/well geared) I have seen do 1200+ Single Target DPS, AE DPS around 2400+ depending on the pack. Rogues... 500-600ish Single Target and 1400-2200 Burst AE DPS....
    Parses please! People that provide parses are more believable and also tend to be a bit more mellow in the stats they throw out!

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    300

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Liper View Post

    These changes are addressing that.
    No, they are not addressing this. That's the problem. There is no reason to bring any rogues besides a bard to a raid now, or after the patch.

    Mages do more DPS, and are ranged. Warriors do more DPS, and wear plate. There isn't some special CC that only rogues can do that is needed. There is no buff we offer that some other class doesn't offer.

    If I'm a raid leader, and I'm min/maxing, I want 1 to 2 bards, and no other rogues.

    You'd think that at least Assassin could out dps everyone if they are able to stay behind the boss 100% of the time, but sadly this is not true. That's your best example of how broken the rogue class is, an Assassin under PERFECT CIRCUMSTANCES can not out DPS a warrior.
    "We've got a particularly troublesome ability on Saboteurs that's causing them to do better damage in the game than anybody else." -- Scott Hartsman

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser LunaticWoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Liper View Post
    Parses please! People that provide parses are more believable and also tend to be a bit more mellow in the stats they throw out!
    When me and the boys go out to do some stuff ill screenshot the parse. I personally been doing like 509DPS for 3min fights self buffed vs the Boss dummy in meridian and going from like 20 other threads (not that many but you know) It seems rogues all seem to be stuck in that area for single target DPS. Sure some have claimed 800+ but its bull as I havent seen any parse for those
    LunaticWoda
    Deepstrike Server
    eXotic Occult
    www.exoticoccult.com

  13. #13
    Champion Wifeagro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Librarian View Post
    - You haven't nerfed warriors hard enough. All souls should give LESS dps than mages and rogues. Not more, not equal, less. If you told someone, "you can either do 600 dps with leather, or you can do 600 dps with plate" which do you think they would choose?

    - Ok great, you buffed mages good they needed it. But you have not made any changes to Marksman, Bladedancer, Assassin, or Ranger. These souls just pretty much suck for PvE right now. After the patch everyone is just going to go NB.

    Most people, if they knew what this class would be like compared to others at level 50, would not have rolled a rogue.
    You said that right om bout done with it I got a cleric and a mage currently, Warriors polute the PVE servers cause they can do everything even heal themselves lol

  14. #14
    Plane Touched TonyDanza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    293

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Librarian View Post
    - You haven't nerfed warriors hard enough. All souls should give LESS dps than mages and rogues. Not more, not equal, less. If you told someone, "you can either do 600 dps with leather, or you can do 600 dps with plate" which do you think they would choose?
    No. If you think a loss of DPS for survivability is a viable tactic in top tier raiding you don't know what you're doing. If you take damage that is enough to 1 shot you, you need better gear. If you get low and die, you need better healers, and if you start getting attacked by a mob, as DPS, you need better tank (or to control your aggro).

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    30

    Default

    I play on a PVE server. I have a level 50 rogue. I am unable to get into Expert Raids because my rogue is not needed unless I am a good bard. I have a bard spec. i am not good at it. I only made it because I was pushed out of events that I PUT TOGETHER because a DPS rogue is not needed in these events. Yes. I am guilded. Yes we have enough people to go. I have a Ranger spec and a Sab spec. I am just not a needed class. it is frustrating.

    So what does my level 50 Ranger do? I help others level who are not level 50 and I get to play a character under level 20 because I hate redoing the quests and zones I did to level my main. My heart is not in my other characters but I really like my Ranger. Too bad no one else does.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts