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Thread: Are We All Not Rogues?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Are We All Not Rogues?

    I can't understand the attitudes of several of the people who post on this forum.

    The title says it all. People seem to stuck in this class warfare mindset. But this game does not have classes. It has callings and souls.

    The proposed changes of these upcoming patches have had many people laughing at those who run Sab primary souls. Bards took a hit too. The other Souls received no measurable DPS boosts. Rogues have been glad that other Rogues are receiving what they feel are unfair changes to their primary soul. They act as though this is WoW, and that they are one class and another class which competed with them has been nerfed.

    But this isn't a typical MMO. We don't have a class. We have a calling. We are Rogues.

    I think people think of the souls in a fundamentally backwards way. They think of souls as a typical MMO's class. But that isn't the case. Souls are like pieces of gear, you shouldn't become attached to them. There is a reason you get 4 roles, each with 3 souls. That's 12 Souls. Souls are changeable, swappable, and fundamentally temporary.

    Whatever soul works best for a situation or you enjoy best should be what you use. But you shouldn't swear allegiance to it.

    There is one thing, however that you are bound to, and that is your Calling. You can't repsec out of your calling. A Calling is composed of the souls. When the developer lowers the overall effectiveness of one of your souls, as a Rogue Calling, you are hurt. Regardless of whether you use that soul at that time or not. Your possibilities in game have been diminished. If at the same time the developer does not strengthen your other souls or make more of your souls competitive with the other Callings souls, you have been further hurt.

    Look at the Mages, they united around their Calling, not their souls, and received across the board boosts to make them more effective and competitive when compared to the other Callings. We need the same. We need constructive criticism and numbers to back up our case. Not partisan soul based politics.

    It is time we show a little allegiance to our Calling and our fellow Rogues, not to our builds or primary souls. That is the only way that our Calling will progress and perhaps find level footing with the others.

  2. #2
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    I full agree. I have right now 3 different soul set ups.

    Bard.. Sin/RS, and a Sabo/sin I play them for different situations.

    I prefer to play on my sin but seeing as how they lack any signifigant dps they have been only good for roaming around in the open world.

    I am a lil more than pissed off at the heavy nerfs coming to our class, especially when alot of rogue souls needed a buff if anything.
    Originally Posted by Rawne
    Awww, are we resorting to insults?

    And here was me thinking we could bestest friends and skip through fields of corn on a summers day.

    Now i'm at a loss what to do, should I fly into a nerd rage and hurl insults back, slope off into a corner crying tears of frustration due to someone i'm never likely to have the pleasure of meeting saying mean things to me on a forum, cancel my pre order due to random stranger hinting that I may "sux at my class" because I didn't bother to check my dps while playing a beta for 2 days (because it's a new game ... my dps at this stage means so much it's like a burning pain in my chest) or do I offer the hug of joy and forget about it all......

    Ahh the choices.....

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Ghoest9's Avatar
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    LOL at the OPs fail rhetoric.

    Two points.

    1 If Sabs are over powered and melee/ranged rogues are under powered why should melee/ranged types be expected defend Sabs?


    2 Why does it matter if they are called "souls" or "classes" - the large number of people who want to play dex monkey melee and ranged have no more reason to defend sabs than they have reason to defend warriors.


    noob
    Last edited by Ghoest9; 03-26-2011 at 08:18 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoest9 View Post
    LOL at the OPs fail rhetoric.

    Two points.

    1 If Sabs are over powered and melee/ranged rogues are under powered why should melee/ranged types be expected defend Sabs?


    2 Why does it matter if they are called "souls" or "classes" - the large number of people who want to play dex monkey melee and ranged have no more reason to defend sabs than they have reason to defend warriors.


    noob
    I will tell you why. Because you can easily buy a new role and make it a sab and become usefull , or a bard.

    Melee rogue needs a serious buff. I would rather play my melee rogue, but at this point in time I am more of an asset to the group or raid if I play a sab or a bard.

    You can't buy a new class. Right now rogues are being ****ed front wards and backwards. Can you please show some sort of support for your class?

    Oh and you called that guy a noob, but only a noob would not realize or utilize the 4 role options that you can have.

    I started out as a melee rogue but then when I realized their uselessness in a group situation I decided to buy some new role slots. you should too.
    Last edited by Darkpharoh; 03-26-2011 at 08:28 AM.
    Originally Posted by Rawne
    Awww, are we resorting to insults?

    And here was me thinking we could bestest friends and skip through fields of corn on a summers day.

    Now i'm at a loss what to do, should I fly into a nerd rage and hurl insults back, slope off into a corner crying tears of frustration due to someone i'm never likely to have the pleasure of meeting saying mean things to me on a forum, cancel my pre order due to random stranger hinting that I may "sux at my class" because I didn't bother to check my dps while playing a beta for 2 days (because it's a new game ... my dps at this stage means so much it's like a burning pain in my chest) or do I offer the hug of joy and forget about it all......

    Ahh the choices.....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoest9 View Post
    LOL at the OPs fail rhetoric.

    Two points.

    1 If Sabs are over powered and melee/ranged rogues are under powered why should melee/ranged types be expected defend Sabs?


    2 Why does it matter if they are called "souls" or "classes" - the large number of people who want to play dex monkey melee and ranged have no more reason to defend sabs than they have reason to defend warriors.


    noob
    That is my point. But continue to insult me, that is always a good way to move your point forward.

    Melee ranged rogues should defend Sabs because they could be Sabs if they wanted, Sabs are part of the tool kit our Calling is given. The loss of any Soul as a viable spec hurts all Rogues. Not just those who are run that as a primary spec.

    My rogue isn't a Sab.(Currently I have 3 roles, Ranger/NB, RS/BD, and Bard/NB). He isn't any one soul, I switch my souls out frequently to keep it fresh and see what each can do. I am not saying that is what you should do, I am saying you are capable of it. So the weakening of any one soul is a weakening of the Calling as a whole.

    As for your second point, I think it is pretty clear why you are wrong. I cannot make my Rogue into a Warrior. So of course I don't defend them. The time I have invested in my character is invested in my Calling, not my souls. But for less than a plat one of the melee/ranged rogues can become a Sab or a bard or any combination of souls. Those souls are their souls, whether they use them or not.

    Again though, you've fallen into the "us Vs them" mentality that divides the group and ultimately makes it weaker.

  6. #6
    Champion Wifeagro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpharoh View Post
    I full agree. I have right now 3 different soul set ups.

    Bard.. Sin/RS, and a Sabo/sin I play them for different situations.

    I prefer to play on my sin but seeing as how they lack any signifigant dps they have been only good for roaming around in the open world.

    I am a lil more than pissed off at the heavy nerfs coming to our class, especially when alot of rogue souls needed a buff if anything.
    I agree with you on all points . I hope they have a grand scheme of getting this worked out in the next month . I dont know that i want to reroll and lvl up another class , i might just unsubb until they get a handle on balance ive on intention of begging people for endgame tag alongs due to ineffective class.

  7. #7
    General of Telara I Fear Kittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoest9 View Post
    LOL at the OPs fail rhetoric.


    Sabs are over powered ..........................
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  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Ghoest9's Avatar
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    I could be a Sab but I dont want to so why would you think I would defend that over powered gimmick soul?

    They needed a nerf.

    Im not sure if the the nerf they are getting is balanced or not but theres no way Im defending something needs to be nerfed.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoest9 View Post
    I could be a Sab but I dont want to so why would you think I would defend that over powered gimmick soul?

    They needed a nerf.

    Im not sure if the the nerf they are getting is balanced or not but theres no way Im defending something needs to be nerfed.
    But you should still be clamoring about the other Rogue specs not being buffed into line with other calling's DPS. Not cheering because a soul you didn't like got nerfed.

    I should have left something out of my original post, because although this thread was catalyzed by the 1.1 changes, it is not about them. It is about the Rogue community's response to them.

  10. #10
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    People are just pissed their souls sucks so they want every other soul to suck too.

    I bet when they realize rogue tanks are viable for tanking they're gonna start *****ing that they want that nerfed cause it has the most damage mitigation in the game or something else equally ******ed.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoest9 View Post
    I could be a Sab but I dont want to so why would you think I would defend that over powered gimmick soul?

    They needed a nerf.

    Im not sure if the the nerf they are getting is balanced or not but theres no way Im defending something needs to be nerfed.
    Well, cya on the forums in a few months when you have a hard time getting into a group because of your sub par dps. But this time you will be crying about how underpowered the rogue is.
    Originally Posted by Rawne
    Awww, are we resorting to insults?

    And here was me thinking we could bestest friends and skip through fields of corn on a summers day.

    Now i'm at a loss what to do, should I fly into a nerd rage and hurl insults back, slope off into a corner crying tears of frustration due to someone i'm never likely to have the pleasure of meeting saying mean things to me on a forum, cancel my pre order due to random stranger hinting that I may "sux at my class" because I didn't bother to check my dps while playing a beta for 2 days (because it's a new game ... my dps at this stage means so much it's like a burning pain in my chest) or do I offer the hug of joy and forget about it all......

    Ahh the choices.....

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Angryorc's Avatar
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    Errr.. Okay Longtooth!

    Big deal if people still use the term "classes" for Rift souls. We're very bad people indeed!

    Trion wrapped their "classes" in a new way and called them souls...
    Is a melee rogue not the same as a rogue or assassin in every other MMO?
    Is a ranger/marksman not the same as every other hunter/ranger in other MMOs?

    Everyone has the option to use 4 different combination of their preferred souls and switch between them.
    So we're all rogues and everyone has the option to play whatever they like, be it melee dps, tank, healer or ranged dps with pet or the actually innovating saboteur.

    What's your point? Some people don't like the saboteur playstyle and they're expected to rage about the nerfs because some kind of loyalty to the rogue calling?
    Guess what, we've all been critted for 4k+ by a sabo in a warfront, it's not pleasant.

    The only thing our calling can agree to is that most of the souls are underwhelming compared to the others callings and souls within them.
    Even with armor penetration bug fixes and some straight forward nerfs, the rogue calling will still be 200-300 dps below the others.
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  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    It just seems like clearly the players in our calling have done something wrong. Trion listens to the community, it was even acknowledged in the letter from the Executive Producer that the Mage buffs were a result of community outpouring.

    The results of our community thus far: Two of our souls got seriously nerfed, with no appreciable buffs to the others. We are still the lowest damage Calling in the game.

    That doesn't indicate to you that maybe we could be doing a better job of getting our point across to Trion?

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara
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    i hate to see anything in any MMO broken and exploited, like current Sabos and BM warriors... sorry but if you need a crutch to play the game because you lack skill, please go and quit now...

    I would like the souls to be on an even playing field and player skill determine if they are good or not, not the explotaion of a broken mechanic.

    like i said the people why rely on the crutch to cover up their lack of skill will fall down and cry when the crutch is taken away, and the people who play on their own ability will mock those rolling around crying because their crutch was taken away.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    I love some of these replies... "roll a sab and be useful" or "roll a sab and l2p". The whole point of this game was that there are no "cookie-cutter" specs. People should be able to play what they want and feel useful doing it, not be forced into a soul because all the others have been deemed fail. So... there's that.

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