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Thread: Sab was Rogue's Pyro. Now we'll have nothing.

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Sab was Rogue's Pyro. Now we'll have nothing.

    Sab was the viable spec for PVP and PVE that kept up or slightly surpassed other DPS roles. It was the ONLY dps spec that was competitive, much like mage's pyro spec.

    I agree that we should've been toned down a little, but the notes take dps down roughly 45% and range down 1/3 meaning we're useless for both PVE instances (basically 1/2 as powerful as any other dps) and raids and PVP (range hurts us most here).

    Pyro on the other hand is getting buffed.

    All other ranged specs were parsed a lot and are not very competitive, including ranger and marksman. Melee rogues also parsed much lower than war melee and the CC focus of melee rogues is totally useless on bosses, but that hardly matters because melee is not liked in PVE instances anyway thanks to bosses and their instant AOEs. Bards were nice to bring but now group heal as much as chloro but do not have a single target heal, and their buffes are mediocre, so there's no reason to bring one over a pure dps, tank or healing class. Our tank's incoming healing was reduced 80% recently and it's now the worst of all the available tanks, including the war tanks that are getting nerfed.

    This is based on me playing rogue and researching other classes since the beginning of headstart. I'm not threatening to quit, I'm not cursing Trion, I'm simply pointing out what I believe is the situation.

    I'm thinking sin/nightblade will still be viable for pvp because CC is really useful in PVP, but I'm curious what soul or combination of souls will be desired for raiding that could not be much better filled by another role?

    If you want to call me a crying baby and that I should "go back to WoW", that will be duely noted, but what I'm looking for is a more fact-based discussion on what exactly post 1.1 rogue is supposed to do, especially in Raids, besides consistently be the weakest link.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched TheRealCheesy's Avatar
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    Pyro is definitely not the best Mage DPS spec.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealCheesy View Post
    Pyro is definitely not the best Mage DPS spec.
    Oh so they had more than one viable dps spec for Raids? Why the hell was I arguing for mage buffs for the past three weeks?

    Anyway, rogue only has one viable one. Post patch we will have none.

    I'll probably be ok because I like PVP more than PVE anyway, but for raiding rogues I simply do not know what soul or spec they're supposed to "adapt with" that other roles couldn't put out roughly double the damage with.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    umm, pyro is getting some changes too.

    people crying that the sky is falling over class balancing changes should really get used to it. this is a mmo, things change, for the better. Trion has a lot more data to support justification for changes than anyone else. armchair developers need to go away.
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  5. #5
    Telaran danteafk's Avatar
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    probably this is trions approach to minimize the rogue population :F


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    ? y/m Rift - PvP experience will decide ▪ 50 Rogue

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Sezyrrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlebomb View Post
    All other ranged specs were parsed a lot and are not very competitive, including ranger and marksman.
    This is where I have a big problem. Saboteurs were our ranged DPS - Ranger had the pet, so I'm guessing that's why its ranged damage doesn't compare well to Marksmen. Even Marksman wasn't a powerful spec though, I gave it a long trial and it just didn't hold up well, even paired with Ranger to have every increase I could get to ranged phys dps.

    If the 40-45% damage nerf is accurate (I've read from at least 3 different posters doing independent parsing that this is the case, but haven't tested it myself) then sabo is NOT a dps spec any more. Utility at best, maybe, but the dps just dropped down into nearly useless ranges. It'll make a great 0-point soul for the ground-target snare, at least...assuming you haven't filled the slot with something more useful.
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  7. #7
    Telaran Markocius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlebomb View Post
    Sab was the viable spec for PVP and PVE that kept up or slightly surpassed other DPS roles. It was the ONLY dps spec that was competitive, much like mage's pyro spec.

    I agree that we should've been toned down a little, but the notes take dps down roughly 45% and range down 1/3 meaning we're useless for both PVE instances (basically 1/2 as powerful as any other dps) and raids and PVP (range hurts us most here).

    Pyro on the other hand is getting buffed.

    All other ranged specs were parsed a lot and are not very competitive, including ranger and marksman. Melee rogues also parsed much lower than war melee and the CC focus of melee rogues is totally useless on bosses, but that hardly matters because melee is not liked in PVE instances anyway thanks to bosses and their instant AOEs. Bards were nice to bring but now group heal as much as chloro but do not have a single target heal, and their buffes are mediocre, so there's no reason to bring one over a pure dps, tank or healing class. Our tank's incoming healing was reduced 80% recently and it's now the worst of all the available tanks, including the war tanks that are getting nerfed.

    This is based on me playing rogue and researching other classes since the beginning of headstart. I'm not threatening to quit, I'm not cursing Trion, I'm simply pointing out what I believe is the situation.

    I'm thinking sin/nightblade will still be viable for pvp because CC is really useful in PVP, but I'm curious what soul or combination of souls will be desired for raiding that could not be much better filled by another role?

    If you want to call me a crying baby and that I should "go back to WoW", that will be duely noted, but what I'm looking for is a more fact-based discussion on what exactly post 1.1 rogue is supposed to do, especially in Raids, besides consistently be the weakest link.
    How do you see Sab range getting cut to 1/3 of what it was? I seem to recall that Sabo range was at 20 meters. Which is being reduced to 15 meters. Why is that SUCH a big issue? For me, it means nothing, as I am pretty close to my tank in dungeons already. And in PvP, I move around so much that it hardly matters. Only time it matters is when I want to snipe a particular target. Even then, I am still pretty close.

    So, how is this being dropped to a 1/3 of our range? Hrmmm. . . .does not compute well at all if you ask me.

    Thanks,
    Marko

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diknak View Post
    umm, pyro is getting some changes too.

    people crying that the sky is falling over class balancing changes should really get used to it. this is a mmo, things change, for the better. Trion has a lot more data to support justification for changes than anyone else. armchair developers need to go away.
    I see a lot of these kind of general responses in response to the subject.

    "Armchair developers need to go away"

    "Adapt or leave"

    "Nerfs are part of the MMO cycle"

    That's fine, but after reading many pages about the subject, I have yet to see one person name a single spec that rogues are supposed to bring to a raid post 1.1 that will be as good if not better than other roles.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markocius View Post
    How do you see Sab range getting cut to 1/3 of what it was? I seem to recall that Sabo range was at 20 meters. Which is being reduced to 15 meters. Why is that SUCH a big issue? For me, it means nothing, as I am pretty close to my tank in dungeons already. And in PvP, I move around so much that it hardly matters. Only time it matters is when I want to snipe a particular target. Even then, I am still pretty close.

    So, how is this being dropped to a 1/3 of our range? Hrmmm. . . .does not compute well at all if you ask me.

    Thanks,
    Marko
    Sab was at 20 but you could talent it to 30. Now it's base 15 and you can only talent it to 20.

  10. #10
    Telaran Caliy's Avatar
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    Playing a nb or a sin is both viable and fun. Only shame you've got pyro's and sab's literally insta-gibbing you.

    And watching them cheese their way to the top as they bunnyjump around is downright demoralizing. I'm glad sab's are getting a nerf, and if it was upto me the class would have been removed as a whole.

  11. #11
    General of Telara
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    Well said Beetlebomb, those are exactly the concerns I have. No I dont play a sab, I was not one shotting anyone. But now my chances of my bard getting into a raid are slim and there isnt a spec that can come close to being competitive with any other dps. So I guess i'll wait til the patch actually goes live and if they continue on this way I'll reroll as a mage or cleric. Cant stand the warrior roles I've tried.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Rawne's Avatar
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    Until the final notes are released i'm saying nothing.

    Although I started out with low expectations regarding class design purely because a few of team behind it are ex Mythic and i'm from Warhammer so I pretty much know what to expect.

    I'm just waiting for them to slap in a "guard" feature for tanks and "bomb groups" will be the norm again .... I miss bomb groups.

    Either that or we'll see another version of the KoTBS/WP - Chosen/DoK with Warrior/Clerics running around decimating the field.

    See folks, start off with low expectations and you are never disappointed.

    After the Marksman nerf in beta I knew it was only a matter of time until others got swung at.

    And after the whole BW issue in Warhammer it was always obvious Pyro's would get some love.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser TheSiren's Avatar
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    Now you'll have exactly what the other 35 souls have-- a good class that you actually have to learn to play to become viable at.

    There, fixed that for you.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caliy View Post
    Playing a nb or a sin is both viable and fun. Only shame you've got pyro's and sab's literally insta-gibbing you.

    And watching them cheese their way to the top as they bunnyjump around is downright demoralizing. I'm glad sab's are getting a nerf, and if it was upto me the class would have been removed as a whole.
    I'm sure I'll be playing sin/nb in pvp, but what about Raiding. Do you raid with your sin/nb? If so, how do you deal with bosses constantly AOEing and do you think the dps is competative with various war or mage dps specs?

  15. #15
    Telaran Markocius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlebomb View Post
    Sab was at 20 but you could talent it to 30. Now it's base 15 and you can only talent it to 20.
    Ok, but again how is that 1/3 of our range? I see that as 1/2, up to 2/3's range. Still not an issue.

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