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Thread: The melee rogue... I'd just like to know if we are wrong before the month is over

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Quilliam's Avatar
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    Default The melee rogue... I'd just like to know if we are wrong before the month is over

    A lot of us in the 50 crowd (and a growing number who have not reached 50) think the melee rogue is pretty much a waste for PvP.

    Now I'm not saying that after the next patch the ranged rogue is not going to join us, but here is my question.

    Are we wrong in our thinking? Clearly there has been no dev response. There is nothing in the patch notes.

    We're almost a month out and I don't think the devs are even looking at this.

    Which means we must be wrong... and working as intended and that makes me very sad for i love playing melee rogues and clearly picked the wrong calling.

    If we're not wrong I'd like to know before the end of the month.

    I'm done posting here until I here an official response, my QQ has been reserved for the exit survey (which props to Trion because not every company does a survey when you leave)

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    Did the devs say anything before they nerfed warriors and sabs? Nope. Have patience. I'm sure they will send us some love before too long, but really, rogues aren't nearly as bad as many people think.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    The thing is melee rogues are not being outshined by ALL other callings. As far as melee dps we are outshined by those War specs that are just plain broken. The only melee dps I've ever been out dps'd by is the current FOTM build be it RB/Champ or BM/cham/w/e.

    My NB can put out serious burst dmg when needed and in a party situation (i.e. buffs and debuffs) has a pretty competitive sustained dps. Again not as high as the FOTM, but surely outshining any dps that any mages or clerics have to offer (not that this is saying much with the state of those callings atm). And surpasing any warrior that isnt a good player or simply doesnt have an ideal dps spec.

    So basically only the borked out still over the top warrior builds can beat out a good rogue. I dont think this is right still but its not like everyone is killing us. Its a small portion of people. And even smaller when you consider the % of ppl that are ****ty players and dont know how to play their class properly.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absalon View Post
    Did the devs say anything before they nerfed warriors and sabs? Nope. Have patience. I'm sure they will send us some love before too long, but really, rogues aren't nearly as bad as many people think.
    QFT. But remember people want rogue to be 1 win in PvP most the time.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    I owned as assassination in the 20's bracket. Since then I've gone to sab to have some fun before the nerf. I'll be back to either assassination or rb aftwards and I'm sure it will be fine.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    As a still early leveling rogue, can someone tell me without a QQ blast, some of the briefly listed issues?

    Is the problem a matter of strait DPS loss vs other classes? If damage is low, are there no CC or control mechanics worth of any use to counter it? Are shortcomings situational (are you good vs a certain class or spec but weak vs another)?

    There are sooo many QQ posts, but everyone I'm reading is just talking about damage over and over again. I'll be making my own assumptions as I level and get my pvp on, but I'm generally interested in hearing why someone feels they are weak without reading the bible.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Rogues need a few tweaks. The sky is not fallen and they are not totally worthless as people here would have you think. They're harder to play than Warriors, and Warriors are presently broken, so Warriors are presently way better. This patch should hopefully address that because honestly the Warrior specs that are not rolling with the bugged skills are largely unimpressive when compared to Rogues.

    I also think a lot of people really suck, both in their play style and their attitude. You're not going to win all the time in PvP. This game is really heavy on the CCs (a little too heavy IMO) and light on the counters to them. This puts the focus on teamwork and gear. I think with the Sab, Champ, Reaver and Riftblade nerfs it's going to make diverse teams much more beneficial, which opens the field up for melee Rogues that previously had to choose between Sab, Bard, and constant death.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Aprilswift's Avatar
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    If you are talking PvE DPS, then several souls are broken and need help. Warriors top pve dps. Rogues have to go sab to max pve dps.

    If you are talking about PvP, then melee rogues are fine. I play full nightblade, and absolutely wreck face.

    I wouldnt say the problem is that melee rogues are bad, but rather that warriors are overpowered, which is why we see plenty of nerfs coming in the patch. So its basically other classes needing tuning.

    Can melee rogues wreck people? sure. But warriors can do it better at the moment. And mages can wreck people too.
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  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    I will say that this thread is great. Reasonable people talking about reasonable things that would make the rogue work a bit better as intended.

    As I see it right now the biggest issue with rogues over all is sustained dps. And it isnt even that big of an issue. But the issue that does exist is that rogue are very bursty, a good thing and normal for rogues, but once you blow your CDs and big openers our sustained dmg is less than what a lot of people are happy with.

    I honestly have a nice NB build that performs at a level I am totally fine with DPS wise. As I have stated in other posts. This doesnt mean I am against pushing rogue dps up a bit. It just means that I think rogues are a bit out of place in the current state of the game.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    I also think a lot of people really suck, both in their play style and their attitude.
    Bingo, and it was the same way in WoW pvp. A good rogue could own you and 2 of your friends. A bad rogue would give you an open-handed slap in the face and proceed to get stomped into the ground. I would bet money that most of the ppl crying about pvp viability are button mashers. Having to choose between 14+ hotkeys on the fly is too much for them. They want to mash and pwn and if they can't do that they come here and, well, you know the rest.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Oh i'm enjoying my NB/Assassin build quite nicely right now, tried the ranged and i end up going back to melee, i find it much more fun.

    The game is still new and there's no reason to quit because of the way things are, and things are not that bad as people make it out to be.

    Of course this is just my view on things.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara Raiga's Avatar
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    I'm not getting all this QQ over melee rogues lol. I play a sin/rs and my buddy plays a nb/sin and we both dominate in pvp...I'm confused as to whats wrong with them
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  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    atm im putting my sin on the bench its nice when people had almost no hp dot them up and get out of harms way or even dots kill them. now its either you die or they drink true your dots.

    atm im pulling out a NB spec because its the only spec i found that doesnt drop ded with in 5sec of it beeing bullrushed and still put out nice numbers.

    For pve meele are not worth a raid spot and unless its on farm, some 1 shows me a parser there pulling 9-1k dps as a melee and you will be worth a spot but for now im giving my spot to a warrior or mage next spot for the good of the guild since i havent found a spec on alpha yet that can get near it.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Darker Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Rogues need a few tweaks. The sky is not fallen and they are not totally worthless as people here would have you think. They're harder to play than Warriors, and Warriors are presently broken, so Warriors are presently way better. This patch should hopefully address that because honestly the Warrior specs that are not rolling with the bugged skills are largely unimpressive when compared to Rogues.

    I also think a lot of people really suck, both in their play style and their attitude. You're not going to win all the time in PvP. This game is really heavy on the CCs (a little too heavy IMO) and light on the counters to them. This puts the focus on teamwork and gear. I think with the Sab, Champ, Reaver and Riftblade nerfs it's going to make diverse teams much more beneficial, which opens the field up for melee Rogues that previously had to choose between Sab, Bard, and constant death.
    Agreed there matey. A lot of wow rogues who expect stun lock 100%>0% fun all over again.
    I play a riftstalker/nightblade mix and am loving it.

  15. #15
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawx View Post
    Bingo, and it was the same way in WoW pvp. A good rogue could own you and 2 of your friends. A bad rogue would give you an open-handed slap in the face and proceed to get stomped into the ground. I would bet money that most of the ppl crying about pvp viability are button mashers. Having to choose between 14+ hotkeys on the fly is too much for them. They want to mash and pwn and if they can't do that they come here and, well, you know the rest.
    Bingo, ur wrong. When a warrior can bush rush you and kill you before you're unstunned, that's an issue. It's really only an issue if rogues can't do the same. Good or bad, warriors can do that.

    And pyros currently are not that much different with the stuns and pure damage they can do. Rogues are sneaky by nature, but they should be able to burst as big as a Mage, or warrior. The difference is that they have anti-cc built into their dps soul, which we do not. Warriors have a get to you plus stun move. We have either or.

    Stop using the "you must be good" to play a rogue argument because if other players are good (other 3 callings atm), you will lose with similar gear.

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