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Thread: Riftstalkers are not viable tanks...

  1. #1
    Plane Touched bluetick's Avatar
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    Default Riftstalkers are not viable tanks...

    for three reasons:

    1) magic mitigation pales in comparison to warriors. the best we can obtain is 37% compared to 58% for warriors, and it takes time to build the 5 combo points necessary to reach 37%;

    2) too much damage is taken at the begining of fights (both guarded steel and rift guard need to be up to mitigate properly). even with rift barrier, it takes too long to build the combo points to get these in place. inevitably, I have to wait on cooldowns to pull;

    3) dps is horrid compared to warriors

  2. #2
    Champion
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    How about, Riftstalkers are not the be-all, end-all tanks in all situations, because we sure as heck are viable.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    And if a mob strays from your aggro, you can be on it super fast with a choice of 4 different plane shifts that put you directly on them (or them onto you).

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    Ascendant Blays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluetick View Post
    for three reasons:

    1) magic mitigation pales in comparison to warriors. the best we can obtain is 37% compared to 58% for warriors, and it takes time to build the 5 combo points necessary to reach 37%;

    2) too much damage is taken at the begining of fights (both guarded steel and rift guard need to be up to mitigate properly). even with rift barrier, it takes too long to build the combo points to get these in place. inevitably, I have to wait on cooldowns to pull;

    3) dps is horrid compared to warriors
    Agree...

    The initial dmg spike is just ******ed and there are serious threat issues in T2... im spamming all 3 AoEs and trash packs still go for the healers... fail tank? maybe... but every rogues i spoke to ingame says the same thing...

    138 toughness
    144 hit
    7.4k HP
    Quote Originally Posted by Torvax View Post
    Im an R8 Cleric.
    1 Rogue can annihilate 2 healing clerics together-Cross healing doesnt work against a rog. .

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blays View Post
    Agree...

    The initial dmg spike is just ******ed and there are serious threat issues in T2... im spamming all 3 AoEs and trash packs still go for the healers... fail tank? maybe... but every rogues i spoke to ingame says the same thing...

    138 toughness
    144 hit
    7.4k HP
    You are tanking t2 with only 7.4k hp?

    I have 10.2k hp, self buffed.

    Have 0 problems tanking t1/t2/expert rifts/raid rifts.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched bluetick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethernia View Post
    You are tanking t2 with only 7.4k hp?

    I have 10.2k hp, self buffed.

    Have 0 problems tanking t1/t2/expert rifts/raid rifts.
    10.2k? I am sitting at about 8.3k after t1. t1 was doable, but I have died way too many times in t2 at the beginning of fights. Admittedly, there are some decent suggestions on the forms to address initial damage spikes -- such as pulling with cadence (but this tends to scatter the mobs and make holding the pack more difficult. Someone also pointed out that guarded steel doesnt scale depending on the number of combo points in the way that rift guard does -- so maybe I should pop it after 1 or 2 combo points.

    What does your opening sequence look like?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluetick View Post
    10.2k? I am sitting at about 8.3k after t1. t1 was doable, but I have died way too many times in t2 at the beginning of fights. Admittedly, there are some decent suggestions on the forms to address initial damage spikes -- such as pulling with cadence (but this tends to scatter the mobs and make holding the pack more difficult. Someone also pointed out that guarded steel doesnt scale depending on the number of combo points in the way that rift guard does -- so maybe I should pop it after 1 or 2 combo points.

    What does your opening sequence look like?
    Alot depends on the pull.

    Normal trash pulls, i blitz in, hit rift disturb, hit my phantom blow/reprisal for full points (less if i think i really have to hold agro), hit guarded steel, disturb again, tab to a new target, phantom/reprisal macro,rift gaurd, tab/macro, false blade.

    Rarely lose agro, if i do, i have planar attraction, though i prefer to use that just to re-position, instigate for the single runners if there is any.

    Your spec must be odd for you to only have that much hp though.
    Last edited by Ethernia; 03-25-2011 at 10:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Drekor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluetick View Post
    for three reasons:

    1) magic mitigation pales in comparison to warriors. the best we can obtain is 37% compared to 58% for warriors, and it takes time to build the 5 combo points necessary to reach 37%;

    2) too much damage is taken at the begining of fights (both guarded steel and rift guard need to be up to mitigate properly). even with rift barrier, it takes too long to build the combo points to get these in place. inevitably, I have to wait on cooldowns to pull;

    3) dps is horrid compared to warriors
    1) RG alone does 35% and needs 1 CP, your saying you only have 2% resist otherwise?

    2) That's because your trying to do 5cp finishers when you don't have too. Look carefully at RG, it has it's fully mitigation at 1cp it's only the max health of the absorb that goes up. When you need it up at the beginning of the fight 1 CP is plenty. GS also gives it's full armor buff at 1cp, only the duration is increased with CP.

    You can use planar switch to generate a CP then RG before you even get to the fight then shadow assault and immediately GS. That means the boss will get 1 hit on you without your mitigation buffs running. From there you can go into 3x PB and GS then cycle 5pts from there.

    3) True.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blays View Post
    Agree...

    The initial dmg spike is just ******ed and there are serious threat issues in T2... im spamming all 3 AoEs and trash packs still go for the healers... fail tank? maybe... but every rogues i spoke to ingame says the same thing...

    138 toughness
    144 hit
    7.4k HP
    103 toughness
    120 hit
    9.4k HP

    I have no problems in T2. Sure, if there are 4 elites and the group is AoE heavy, I need to tab through and hit each mob a few times, but holding agg for a 2-3 point guarded, and a 5 point rift guard, I have yet to have an issue. A sab with preloaded charges can easily pull off, but they deserve to die if they are not using Incriminate.

    3 mobs, no CC. Blitz, AoE, 1 planar, Guarded. 3 Phantom, 2 Planar, Rift Guard. 5 point Guarded unless you went BD like I did. I like sidesteps/dodge more than the reduction/health from ranger.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched bluetick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drekor View Post
    1) RG alone does 35% and needs 1 CP, your saying you only have 2% resist otherwise?

    2) That's because your trying to do 5cp finishers when you don't have too. Look carefully at RG, it has it's fully mitigation at 1cp it's only the max health of the absorb that goes up. When you need it up at the beginning of the fight 1 CP is plenty. GS also gives it's full armor buff at 1cp, only the duration is increased with CP.

    You can use planar switch to generate a CP then RG before you even get to the fight then shadow assault and immediately GS. That means the boss will get 1 hit on you without your mitigation buffs running. From there you can go into 3x PB and GS then cycle 5pts from there.

    3) True.
    You right. its more like 47 vs 58 magic resist + rogues dont have to compromise physical mitigation to increase damage mitigation. Also, the reduction from RG doesnt scale with combo points, I clearly misread it. Ill have to try it again w/o waiting to build full combos.

    Thanks for the input.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple
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    Can someone show me a build where warriors get 58% magic resist (really am curious, dont know much about other tanks)?

    I sit at 47% mitigation for all sources and 22% self buffed avoidance. I have little problems in raids or 5 mans.

    It's really really really not hard to get your tank buffs up early.

    The first few kills of greenscale were by rift tanks.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluetick View Post
    for three reasons:

    1) magic mitigation pales in comparison to warriors. the best we can obtain is 37% compared to 58% for warriors, and it takes time to build the 5 combo points necessary to reach 37%;

    2) too much damage is taken at the begining of fights (both guarded steel and rift guard need to be up to mitigate properly). even with rift barrier, it takes too long to build the combo points to get these in place. inevitably, I have to wait on cooldowns to pull;

    3) dps is horrid compared to warriors
    1. 35% from RG, 6% from Phantom Blow, 6% from Exceptional Resilience, 6% from Bolster, 50 Magic Defenses from Guardian Phase . . . yup, all add up to 37%.

    2. Pull sequence:
    -Splinter Shot (2 points)
    -Quick Shot (1 point)
    -Rift Guard (3-point finisher)
    -Shadow Assault/Shadow Blitz (1 point)
    -Guarded Steel (1-point finisher)
    All that's left is False Blade, if you got it, and you got 12 seconds to build a second a longer Guarded Steel. (Also, unless the boss is ranged, You got RG up before the boss hits you once, and GS up 1 GCD afterwards)

    3. tps is good, and it is what is important, not dps.
    Faeblight - Defiant: Ghaeleah, Eladria, Mala, Danoria, Azshannya
    Estrael - Guardian: Reah, Shilania, Kethrah, Tulania, Azshannya

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KahnyaGnorc View Post
    6% from Exceptional Resilience.
    Why do I always forget about this one...

    8bld/51rift/7rng gives 51% mitigation (before armor), 22% avoidance and 10.6k hp in raid buffs and enough single target threat.

  14. #14
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    Riftstalkers make excellent tanks.

    The only problem if there is one is the availability of gear.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyveth View Post
    Riftstalkers make excellent tanks.

    The only problem if there is one is the availability of gear.
    ^

    I was lucky in that I got to farm the T2's when they were worth ~22 plaques per. Have 3 pieces off the T2 vendor.

    Still stuck with T1 weapons though (yes, looking at you Plutonus, drop my sword!)

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