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Thread: Rogue tanking

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Rogue tanking

    Just a little fast question, why can a rogue with tank spec, tank expert dungeon in dps gear??? isnt it a little odd that a full t1 warrior tank is a worse tank than a rouge in leather that eat all attack to dodge and do it in 100% full dps gear...

    try ruin the game a bit more pls...

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistell View Post
    Just a little fast question, why can a rogue with tank spec, tank expert dungeon in dps gear??? isnt it a little odd that a full t1 warrior tank is a worse tank than a rouge in leather that eat all attack to dodge and do it in 100% full dps gear...

    try ruin the game a bit more pls...
    You must be talking about T1s because rogues cant tank T2s in DPS gear.

    Warriors and clerics and tank T1s in DPS gear if they want save a shield, and even some clerics dont even need a shield.

    Also its rogue, not rouge.

    Rogue tanks suck. Warrior and Clerics out tank a Rogue tank at every level of the game.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Amusia's Avatar
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    I gotta agree with you here DDT, I've been playing as dps, and with Warrior tanks mainly, farming every t2 every day...

    Now the guild needed a tank to start picking up new members and getting them through t1's and later t2's. I thought I could gather some tank gear from all my plaques and money and in less than 4 hours (atleast 2 of em spent searching forums for hints, making coffee and chatting on vt/mumble) - I had gathered a good 125 toughness, a spec where I have 9.7k hp selfbuffed.. and still wear a few dps items (MH, Rings, neck, belt n gloves) ..
    Now I've tanked the t1's for a wee while.. and .. it's doable yes.. but I have to work so much more than any warrior I've ever met..

    And today I had a latenight talk with a dear RL friend of mine, playing Cleric. He's usually my healer.. but he got a tank offspec too, and not only is the buffs and stats he gets from the tank talent tree massively better than RS.. his abilities are also easier to use, ****loads of armor, ****loads of parry, have a shield = block.. got absorbs.. got self heals.. got group heals.. and a AOE ability with no CD..


    Now I love the RS, the concept of Teleports, blinks and just.. a rogue tanking! .. but the RS seriously needs some love here and there, either on migigation, or on avoidance.. the spike dmg is too unpredictable imo..

    just a few thoughts.. might be wrong in everything.. and I'm just doin' it wrong.. then any helpfull tips would be appriciated.

    ~ mumu

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Cant tell you if your doing it wrong if we cant see what build your using, and what encounter you are up against.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Are you rifting into every pull to put your 15% shield up giving you a moment to stack your defensives?
    Are you stacking your defensives in the most effective order?

    The only complaint that I have is the fact that we have 3 different finishers to maximize our avoidance and mitigation. It is a pain to 1 combo pt guarded steal with a phantom blow, then 2 combo pt rift guard, then 2 combo pt false blade, then redo all three of these at 5 combo pts to finaly get full durration on our stuff.

    The other option if the boss doesnt cleave, is to use 3 seperate rift jumps, to get full duration armor and parry buffs up while working with a ghetto version of your rift guard.

    So unless i missed something, the only way to start a boss fight after a wipe at 100% performance (becouse you dont have any durration left on your defensives from the last trash pack) , is to blow planar refuge from the door, putting you at a disadvantage over other tanks who can then save their cooldown for later in the fight durring a bad moment.

    No im not taking healers covenant into consideration becouse that is an external cooldown and was not part of this discussion.

    For anyone that missed what im talking about, the 6% parry is from improved false blade 21 and 22 points in bladedancer, wich is proving far superior to 15 more points put into riftstalker for me in T1 and T2 content.


    I am inclined to say that the devs vision of the riftstalker in this game is the feral druid of WoW. Go into stalker phase on the boss keep all your defensives maxed doing mediocre damage, and once adds are about to spawn, go into guardian phase, porting around the room picking them up.

    Anyone with an educated response to this would be appreciated.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    I'm having very little trouble tanking experts for the most part, and most of my healers tend to tell me I take much more steady, less spiky damage than equivalently-geared warriors.

    I almost always open up the same way, with Planar Switch -> Shadow Blitz/Shadow Assault right into Guarded Steel, followed by 3 Phantom Blows stacks and some more CP building into a 5pt Rift Guard, 5 CP again to refresh Guarded Steel, and then weaving in False Blade after that. It's trivially easy to keep everything up once its up, and judicious use of Planar Switch helps build CP faster, as does having Reprisal.

    The biggest issue I've seen, and the place where I think Riftstalkers need the most love, is in their damage output / threat generation. Full T2 warriors can pull off of me if I'm not focusing the same target they are, and on AoE pulls or fights with lots of movement that can be a potential issue.

    Combined with the ease of movement Riftstalkers have, I can position mobs better than any other tank I've seen.

    I'd like to have an interrupt, but other than that I haven't noticed a significant lack.

    Build is here: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...ItIuqdRkkR.x0d

    Once I start regularly having (raid) groups with more than one bard, I plan on dropping the point in Anthem of Glory, but for 5-mans it's a nice tool.

    I've played with the Ranger version, but I have so much more health with Bard subspec that I'm not convinced the 4% mitigation from 2/3 Bolster is worth it.

    I've tried the heavier Bladedancer build and while the avoidance is noticably higher, I take much more spike damage, and I don't feel like the tradeoff is worth it, especially with the 22 point investment in BD. It's GREAT for threatgen, but at the cost of survivability. If Imp. False Blade were lower in the tree I'd happily go for it, but losing that much health and mitigation just isn't worth it to me, not to mention losing Planar Attraction and Scatter the Shadows, both excellent tools.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Slight addition:

    Part of the reason I feel like the points in Bladedancer aren't worth it are because I'm really only getting Improved False Blade, Ambidextrous, and Combat Preparation for survivability; everything else I would already be getting in the tree anyway.

    In order to get that, I'm giving up 13% Endurance and 6.5% damage mitigation, plus whatever points I might need to give up in the Bard tree, if any.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    wouldnt u like to drop 2 points in Strike Back and put them in Street Smart instead?
    also.. is the 51 RS skill that good?

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara StealthStalker's Avatar
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    My opener is traditionally a 3 Point Riftguard (Teleport in, planar switch, phantom blow), then a 3 point GS/False blade and then 5 point same rotation.

    Rift Barrier just doesn't cut it on some pulls and some bosses. For instance tonight Plutonis was hitting me for something like just under 3k with Rift Guard up, so Rift Barrier hits were monstrous.

    If Rift Barrier will handle it, for instance aoe trash pulls, or a pull where I'll be popping Side Steps immediately, I'll definitely get Guarded Steel up first. It's a judgment call pull-to-pull which route I decide to take. If you're pulling fast enough, Guarded Steel is generally up anyway.

    As for spec, I've done everything in T1 and T2 apart from Scarn, with the normal 51/8/6.
    Last edited by StealthStalker; 03-28-2011 at 12:04 AM.

    Don't forget to support Dual Targeting in SWTOR and Prime Online.
    We didn't get it here, but perhaps we can help make the next games into what they should be.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonX View Post
    wouldnt u like to drop 2 points in Strike Back and put them in Street Smart instead?
    also.. is the 51 RS skill that good?
    Strike Back is free threat, particularly on targets I'm not hitting, something I have precious little of, and you need 8 points in Bladedancer to get False Blade, which is VERY important.

    Here's the thing about the RS 51-pointer: It's a very short duration AMAZING cooldown. 3 seconds at the start of the fight is... 3 CP, although with lag calculated in it's more like 2CP, but for particularly tough boss pulls where the beginning of the fight is dicey enough that I can pop it, have PLENTY of time to build combo points with absolute impunity, let my healer get positioned/ready, and have my defenses either up or ready to be up, all without using either Side Steps or Planar Refuge, meaning I have them both later on in the fight just in case I need them.

    RS has roughly 12 points of unnecessary-for-tanking talents, but I'm going to spend 5 of those and get Planar Attraction, 5% endurance, and 2.5% mitigation. At that point, it's not exactly difficult to justify spending a few more points to get the 51-pointer and another 7% endurance and 3.5% mitigation; those little bits add up.

    I greatly prefer reliable tanking stats to spiky avoidance, which stresses out healers. It's easily overlooked that every point spent in RS gives you more health (that scales significantly with gear) and better mitigation. RS is *not* an avoidance tank.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara StealthStalker's Avatar
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    Yep, Scatter the Shadows is amazing. I love that ability.

    Don't forget to support Dual Targeting in SWTOR and Prime Online.
    We didn't get it here, but perhaps we can help make the next games into what they should be.

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