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Thread: Sabs were never OP

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    Default Sabs were never OP

    The title says it all Sabs are not OP never were. All of our damage comes at once but added together it isnt more damage than any other dps class. I usually place in the middle when it comes to damage done but hi in the amount of killing blows. Thats the way the class is supposed to work. We arent gods of pvp by no means any plate wearer can survive 4-5 stacks of bombs on them np, chain wearers can survive 3-4 full stacks its just cloth wearers that cant very many stacks. Normally i can kill a clothie with 1.5 stacks if they dont heal in between stacks.
    A assassin properly skilled can kill me easy as well as any skilled plate wearer that gets close enough to stun lock me.
    Instead of nerfing sabs it was the mage classes that actually needed the nerf but in a good way. Raise a mages damage and increase the assassins survivablity and there would be no need for any nerfs at all. Oh yeah while im doing the QQ thing stop the gcd on all potions being on the same timer its not a good idea. Rift is about having fun so instead of making one persons class less fun to play make the other chars more fun by bringing them upto snuff.

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    So then why do Sabs claim to be able to solo dungeons? Forget PVP, no one soul combination should be able to solo any of the dungeon instances.
    Last edited by MoonDragn; 03-24-2011 at 01:10 PM.

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    Telaran Bloodmaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonDragn View Post
    So then why do Sabs claim to be able to solo dungeons?
    Because telling a lie is easy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodmaw View Post
    Because telling a lie is easy...
    So... how do we know they were lying then and are not lying now?
    “DEATH! DEATH ANSWERS DEFIANCE!”

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    Plane Touched Dylvish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawpaw View Post
    The title says it all Sabs are not OP never were. All of our damage comes at once but added together it isnt more damage than any other dps class. I usually place in the middle when it comes to damage done but hi in the amount of killing blows. Thats the way the class is supposed to work. We arent gods of pvp by no means any plate wearer can survive 4-5 stacks of bombs on them np, chain wearers can survive 3-4 full stacks its just cloth wearers that cant very many stacks. Normally i can kill a clothie with 1.5 stacks if they dont heal in between stacks.
    A assassin properly skilled can kill me easy as well as any skilled plate wearer that gets close enough to stun lock me.
    Instead of nerfing sabs it was the mage classes that actually needed the nerf but in a good way. Raise a mages damage and increase the assassins survivablity and there would be no need for any nerfs at all. Oh yeah while im doing the QQ thing stop the gcd on all potions being on the same timer its not a good idea. Rift is about having fun so instead of making one persons class less fun to play make the other chars more fun by bringing them upto snuff.

    No one ever said sabs were OP'd in the dps department (To my knowledge). The complaints stem from ALL of their damage coming at the same time. 5 attacks worth of damage + finisher. Instantly.
    There is simply almost no way to deal with that in pvp. I have a sab build on my rogue and have gotten together with a few guildies to work on ideas for countering it, and it really comes down to either the sab gets jumped and / or focus fired ahead of everyone else, or people die.

    If you can catch a sab and hold em, you can kill him (not as easy as it sounds with aoe snares, and RS secondary) fairly easily. If you have a dispel using ally that does nothing but spam that one skill all day, you can counter them. That is really your only options. You can not heal through the hit because its instant and all at once, and therein lies the problem.

    But hey, the argument will continue I am sure.

    (NOTE: I am talking about PvP. In PVE, I don't really care too much who can solo what. Every class has its strengths and weaknesses in environment, and ways players can exploit the builds. Its PvP where the players putting build exploits to their full advantage can throw off balance, that it matters much more. In my opinion of course).
    Last edited by Dylvish; 03-24-2011 at 01:14 PM.

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    Any sab that can solo a dungeon thats at a appropriate level for him/her I wanna meet. I suppose it would be possible if you wanted to kite everything in there but it would take days to finish one dungeon and the bosses are immune to our cc so we would have to skip those.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonDragn View Post
    So then why do Sabs claim to be able to solo dungeons? Forget PVP, no one soul combination should be able to solo any of the dungeon instances.
    My Necrolock soloed Iron Tomb.

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    I never play a sab but I will have to side with them on this one. 1st off whomever said sab soloing dungeons are not even worth talking to so bye bye.

    Now with sab in PVP, I think most of us, even the ones that are asking for sab nerfs, are unhappy about their brust damage and not DPS. I think trion designed sab to be a class to do just that, brust damage. It turned out to be a problem because it's new to MMORPG PVP world. In other MMO's when we takl about brust damage we usually mean someone slugger doing big hits every 3 sec or so, not like sab here who does no damage for like 10 sec then BOOM.

    I strongly feel it is a very cool aspect that should not be removed and turn sab into just another dps class, I think I can speak for a large player base that we want diversity,just not at the cost of blance.

    So here's some of my idea about blancing sab will still keeping them unique. what I think well help is to make tehir playstle a high risk high reward one, make it harder for them to get a full stack on a player, so most of the time they will be force to detonate their charges prematurely or risk losing the charges and not do any damage at all. Right now a sab can stack charges very easily(not safe but easy), and there's little a player can do when they see charges being apply to them. What I suggst is allow players to more easily "shake off" charges by running away from the sab, CCing the sab, or LOSing the sab and make the charges' "debuff" very short live like 5,6 sec. This way the sab must work harder to apply the next charge in time before losing them all, and it will be more up to the targeted player's own skill that can save them from the big boom. But if the sab can overcome the diffculty and get a full stack on, the big BOOM should hurt really really bad.

    I really really hate to see we lose diversity if a unique class like sab go dull, good idea like this are hard to come by these days. So please dev @ Trions, try to blance it will still keep the fun in it!

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara Kanabull's Avatar
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    tl;dr : umadbro?
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  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Pretty easy to argue how the proposed Sab nerfs make sense ...

    Individual crit rolls for each charge vs a single roll - this will up the average det andavoid the huge crit spikes.
    Decreased range - charges always hit...

    Force Sabs to get creative with openers like a single charge stun instead of presently playing a blastx6 hoping for a crit that applies to all charges.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Kiserai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawpaw View Post
    All of our damage comes at once but added together it isnt more damage than any other dps class.
    This part I'm not so sure about. I think it was a bit higher. It depended on the Saboteur, though--bad ones would do badly no matter what the state of balance was.

    Quote Originally Posted by rprice View Post
    Force Sabs to get creative with openers like a single charge stun instead of presently playing a blastx6 hoping for a crit that applies to all charges.
    (Assuming the x6 was a typoed x5.)
    That really wasn't a good idea before, but ironically that will probably be what people do now You see, before now the burst damage was significantly higher by mixing charge types to hit with an effective 10-stack instead of an effective 6-stack, but now the benefit in doing so is gone with the Charge Booster change. Blastx5 is probably going to be the way to go in most situations.
    Last edited by Kiserai; 03-24-2011 at 02:24 PM.

  12. #12
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    (Assuming the x6 was a typoed x5.)
    That really wasn't a good idea before, but ironically that will probably be what people do now You see, before now the burst damage was significantly higher by mixing charge types to hit with an effective 10-stack instead of an effective 6-stack, but now the benefit in doing so is gone with the Charge Booster change. Blastx5 is probably going to be the way to go in most situations.[/QUOTE]

    With the range decrease sabo's will need to be a bit more defensive minded like other rogues so spamming blast charges won't be enough.

    No typo .. at present 5+1 blast charges at range is more than enough in low level WFs to get way in front of healers. Why bother missing with more than 2 keys.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rprice View Post
    With the range decrease sabo's will need to be a bit more defensive minded like other rogues so spamming blast charges won't be enough.

    No typo .. at present 5+1 blast charges at range is more than enough in low level WFs to get way in front of healers. Why bother missing with more than 2 keys.
    Tbh I think the range nerf will do the opposite: sabos will be more of a suicide bomber. You don't have the tools to disengage and more than ever your build needs to maximize damage, otherwise it'll be laughable. That means you go in, give it your best shot at exploding someone, then go down (unless you're fighting baddies or are lucky), rinse and repeat.

    Do you have any idea how easy it is for a ranged build at the back of a group to retreat enough to avoid the new 15 meter detonate? And how deep into all kinds of trouble that sabo will have to get for a chance to reach anyone they need to reach. Of course, the alternative is to just mindlessly try and put a dent into those front line tanks that get heals from the back. Kinda renders the function of sabos pointless, though.
    Last edited by Shmn; 03-24-2011 at 03:18 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meerletalis View Post
    So... how do we know they were lying then and are not lying now?
    I doubt a sab said that. Probably somebody that wanted them toned down so they claimed to be an OP sab that could solo dungeons. I never tried to solo a dungeon with my sab, but without a healer I think it would be pretty damned hard.
    Originally Posted by Rawne
    Awww, are we resorting to insults?

    And here was me thinking we could bestest friends and skip through fields of corn on a summers day.

    Now i'm at a loss what to do, should I fly into a nerd rage and hurl insults back, slope off into a corner crying tears of frustration due to someone i'm never likely to have the pleasure of meeting saying mean things to me on a forum, cancel my pre order due to random stranger hinting that I may "sux at my class" because I didn't bother to check my dps while playing a beta for 2 days (because it's a new game ... my dps at this stage means so much it's like a burning pain in my chest) or do I offer the hug of joy and forget about it all......

    Ahh the choices.....

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Do you have any idea how easy it is for a ranged build at the back of a group to retreat enough to avoid the new 15 meter detonate? And how deep into all kinds of trouble that sabo will have to get for a chance to reach anyone they need to reach.
    Sure it's like a MM that actually has to stand on a pedestal and cast 2s attacks or use a CD to move and escape.

    Of course, the alternative is to just mindlessly try and put a dent into those front line tanks that get heals from the back. Kinda renders the function of sabos pointless, though.
    Or maybe use stealth to setup an attack, a sticky bomb/stun charge to CC and spend some build points in another soul that provides some PvP CC breaks. All that MM spend doesn't come for free...

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