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Thread: Riftstalker, The Rogue Tank - A T1 PvE Perspective

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    Soulwalker Aazzdos1's Avatar
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    Default Riftstalker, The Rogue Tank - A T1 PvE Perspective

    Introduction

    My calling and soul was chosen the moment I read the little Riftstalker description on the official Trion site a few months ago. I don't particularly enjoy tanking in itself; I enjoy tanking with that which seems as if it really shouldn't be tanking. A dude in leather that dual wields fits such a description quite nicely. The fact that the soul is of the rogue archtype and is defined by it's teleporting abilities - two MMO fetishes of mine that I can admit right from the start - is icing on the cake.

    My experience in Riftstalker PvE Tanking is limited to T1 Experts (all of them), but I've been doing it for a few weeks now. You can skip ahead to the "Itemization" section to figure out why I haven't seen T2 Experts yet. I'd like to think I'm not an idiot, but I'm on Icewatch (EU, PvE) if you want to group with me and judge for yourself.

    The Riftstalker soul surprised me. The sales pitch was true, and they actually can tank. While Riftstalkers have a fair ways to go before we're 'there' in terms of tanking potential, they do work decently considering the concept of a rogue tank is unheard of in generic MMO terms.

    It's not so much that Riftstalkers are 'weak' as they are 'quirky'. And not the good kind of quirky that you might hear in your favourite singer's voice, but quirky as in... there are a lot of little nuisances that drag an otherwise competent soul down.

    The purpose of this thread is to try and highlight those issues, and hopefully work towards fixing the gaps in the Riftstalker as a soul. It's not a guide; there was a good one of those floating around here somewhere.

    These issues only consider the Riftstalker as a tank, and only in a PvE environment.

    Initiation

    Riftstalkers require Rift Guard and Guarded Steel to both be active before they are proper 'tanks'. The combo points (which start at 1 on the pull if you use Shadow Assault or Shadow Blitz) are simply not plentiful enough to have both of these active at once, usually forcing the rogue to use 1-2 point finishers on these abilities (which hurts their already poor threat, more on that later) and then repeating them later on at 5 points. Because of this, Riftstalkers are incredibly vulnerable at the start of a fight, usually forcing the use of a cooldown to allow them time to adjust. Using combo points to remain tanky seems to be a core part of the class, and changing that would be making them just like any other tank... which I doubt is the intention.

    Suggested Changes:

    -Remove Rift Guard and Improved Rift Guard. Add the effect passively to Improved Guardian Phase. Improved Guardian Phase would read as "Increases your Endurance by an additional 5%. For every point spent in the Riftstalker soul above 26, an additional 1% bonus is added to your Endurance. Also reduces all damage taken by 22.5%. For every point spent in the Riftstalker soul above 26, the damage reduction is increased by 0.5%. These bonuses are applied only when you are in Guardian Phase." This would fix half of the intiation mitigation issue, as well as one of our threat issues (discussed later) since we don't need to waste combo points on Rift Guard. Because of this change, Rift Barrier and Improved Rift Barrier would be changed to have no effect if you were in Guardian Stance.

    -Change Improved Guarded Steel to also apply 5/10 seconds of Guarded Steel when Shadow Assault or Shadow Blitz (our two ranged initiators) is used. This makes it so that the Rogue is at full tanking potential on initiation, but also makes it so that the Rogue cannot ignore Guarded Steel and just spam plane shifts to keep his mitigation up (10 second duration v 30s cooldown, if improved, Blitz and Assault could only be combo'd for 20 seconds maximum).

    Threat / Damage

    Riftstalker threat and damage is awful. The base values are enough that it works in T1, but I see little to no potential from scaling (and have heard it becomes painful to hold aggro in T2, more in that when I actually get there). I know what you're thinking that obviously a tank's damage is awful. And so it should be, compared to a pure DPS. But warrior tanks do roughly half of a pure DPS's damage, in line more or less with support characters (such as chloros). Riftstalkers do half the damage of a warrior tank, which is a quarter of a DPS class'. I can try and steal parses from a friend at a later date if necessary. Look at this way:

    Tank (Warrior) - 50%
    DPS 1 - 100%
    DPS 2 - 100%
    Support - 50%
    Healer - 0%

    A 'balanced' 5 man group has 3 full DPSers total. But using a Riftstalker tank:

    Tank (Riftstalker) - 25%
    DPS 1 - 100%
    DPS 2 - 100%
    Support - 50%
    Healer - 0%

    You might think meh, that's hardly anything... but it all adds up. Having a Riftstalker tanking just cut a quarter of a full DPS'ers damage out... that's alot of damage. It's just another reason to turn a Riftstalker tank away and take a traditional Warrior instead.

    A Riftstalker's burst AE potential is actually decent if you open with Shadow Blitz and then Rift Disturbance immediately afterwards, but with Blitz's relatively long cooldown (30s improved) you are left with one AE move every 10 seconds for threat.

    Suggested Changes:

    -Remove the damage reduction from Guardian Phase. This does not make Stalker Phase obselete, as it still has a damage bonus whereas Guardian Phase does not.

    -Add an "Improved Annihilate" talent, which increases all Physical damage dealt by the Rogue by 510% while Annihilate is active.

    -Add "deals additional threat when in Guardian Phase" to all Riftstalker damage abilities, and remove the inherent threat bonus. Allows non-tanks to use their abilities as normal, yet ensures Riftstalker tanks can produce tank-like threat numbers without the damage of a DPS.

    -Reduce the cooldown of Rift Disturbance to 5 seconds.

    Itemisation

    There is none. No, really. There are a pair of legs that drop in IT Expert and... that's it. Everything else requires weeks and months and years and decades of farming plaques to obtain, and even then they are sub-par to what Warriors are getting for 'free' (drops). The argument "Rogue tanks are a small community, therefore shouldn't waste itemization slots" is self-destructive.

    It is already hard to encourage people to tank (common MMO knolwedge). It's even harder to encourage people to play the 'experimental' tank, the Rogue tank. And then it's almost impossible to get them to try it out because the only way to equip for it is to farm plaques endlessly. Warriors have full tanking sets from drops, which only take a few days to gather, law of averages willing. A Rogue tank doesn't have that luxury... we know we can only tank after a few weeks of solid plaque farming.

    From what I've seen Justicars are in the exact same position. If you're serious about Rogues as viable tanks, give us a tanking loot table. There are tons of duplicate drops in experts that just juggle a couple of stats here and there but are intended for the same role. Axe the dupes and slot in rogue/cleric tanking gear. There should be just as much tanking leather and chain as there is plate, no exceptions.

    Know the best way to get people to tank? "Well, I have all this tanking leather sitting in my bags, guess I could try it out to see if I like it... holy crap this is awesome, I'm going to get Riftstalker tatooed across my back and name my first baby Rifty!" That's how you do it. Equal opportunities between all three tanks, please. It's depressing to see a dps warrior ready for tanking T2 that has never tanked in his life, while I've been tanking experts solidly since I hit 50 and have a single (plaque) tanking item to my name.

    Cooldowns

    Riftstalker defensive cooldowns are rather lacklustre. We get -30% damage taken for 10 seconds on a 2 minute cooldown, 3 seconds of immunity, and a gimmicky immune-to-the-world-then-die-10-seconds-later spell that serves no real purpose. When I first saw Defer Death in the tree, I thought comboing that with Scatter the Shadows would give us 13 seconds of immunity. Yes, that would be ridiculous, but it's the only practical use Defer Death could serve a tank. Besides the comedy of "5... 4... 3... 2... 1... dead tank!", Defer Death does nothing for us.

    Scatter the Shadows should function as the "oh sh-" button, whereas Planar Refuge should be the pre-emptive "damage is coming" button. As long as the 'cooldowned' window is small (say, 15 seconds out of 120) I don't see any issues with giving Riftstalkers more reliable defensive cooldowns.

    Suggested Changes:

    -Increase the damage reduction of Planar Refuge to 50%, but flip the position in the tree with Planar Shift so that you don't have damage immune DPSers all over the place.

    -Increase the duration of Scatter the Shadows to 5 seconds. After all, it's a 51 point talent that only tanks will see.

    -Remove Defer Death, replace it with what you will (perhaps the interrupt mentioned in the "Minor Nuisances" section.)

    Minor Nuisances

    This is a list of things that don't break the game but make it very... very annoying to tank as a Riftstalker.

    Suggested Changes:

    -Remove any and all taunts from the global cooldowns. Really, these spells need to happen as quick as the tank can click them. I shouldn't need to elaborate on this and I find it quite an obvious change, but... you can't "taunt now!" if you're shut out from the taunt for 1.5 seconds.

    -Making Planar Attraction affect 10 targets instead of 5 would make it more useful in AE situations, as would increasing the range to 20 meters. It could be seen as a 'gathering' skill, offset by a relatively long cooldown (60s).

    -Riftstalker tanks need a 'kick' spell, or an interrupt. A generic 5 second lock-out with a 10 second cooldown would be fine. You could even make it a Plane Shift interrupt if you wanted to keep the warping theme, but that might have issues on such a short cooldown.

    Summary

    -Remove Rift Guard and Improved Rift Guard.
    -Make the old Rift Guard and Improved Rift Guard effects passive when you're in Guardian Phase (if the Rogue has Improved Guardian Phase).
    -Make Improved Guarded Steel apply 5/10 seconds of Guarded Steel when you Shadow Assault or Shadow Blitz, if you're in Guardian Phase.
    -Remove the damage penalty from being in Guardian Phase.
    -Add an Improved Annihilate talent, that increases all Physical damage dealt by the Rogue by 5/10% while Annihilate is active.
    -Add "generates additional threat when in Guardian Phase" to all Riftstalker abilities that deal damage.
    -Reduce the cooldown on Rift Disturbance to 5 seconds.
    -Itemise Rogue tanks (and Cleric tanks!) just as much as Warriors tanks.
    -Increase the damage reduction of Planar Refuge to 50%.
    -Swap the position of Planar Refuge with Planar Switch.
    -Increase the duration of Scatter the Shadows to 5 seconds.
    -Remove Defer Death.
    -Remove any and all taunts from the global cooldown.
    -Make Planar Attraction affect 10 targets, and increase the range to 20 metres.
    -Give Riftstalkers a generic interrupt; 5 second lock-out, 10 second cooldown.

    Closing

    Very few of these changes make the Riftstalker a 'stronger' PvE tank than they already are, it just smooths out the rough edges. The only 'extras' they get are closer damage to Warrior tanks which also fixes their threat issues, and beefier defensive cooldowns.

    If you're serious about Riftstalkers being competitive tanks, you'll hopefully consider some or all of the above to help bring us in line with our plate wearing brethren. This should also encourage more people to actually want to play a Riftstalker tank.

    Contribute what you like as long as it's constructive. Other Riftstalkers, the people healing them, Warriors/Clerics that sometimes tank and have been with a Rifty instead, or even the DPS that follow a Riftstalker through an instance.

    What do YOU think about Riftstalkers? Seen any issues that I haven't mentioned? Think they're too weak in certain situations? Too strong, even? Post it.

    Thanks for reading, and don't laugh at the next Rogue that wants to tank your instance.

    Unless he's a dwarf.

    -Aazzdos

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Aazzdos1's Avatar
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    "-Add an "Improved Annihilate" talent, which increases all Physical damage dealt by the Rogue by 510% while Annihilate is active."

    Should read:

    "-Add an "Improved Annihilate" talent, which increases all Physical damage dealt by the Rogue by 5/10% while Annihilate is active."

    As awesome as it would be to deal 510% damage all the time, apparently you can't edit posts after 5 minutes...
    Aazzdos of <Clueless> - 50 Mathosian Rogue (Riftstalker) - Icewatch EU (PvE)
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    I disagree with point generation on pull. At 51RS, you still have 15pts to subspecs that give you options to quickly generate points. Frankly, I think doing that part right is part of the difference between good and bad RS tanks.

    (In general, if there are weaknesses that can be mitigated without eroding the strengths of the role beyond usability, then I don't think there's a problem. For ex: you want splash Bard or splash Ranger anyway. Using range point builders out of those subspecs gets you to one full buff off the pull.)

    I also can't see Guardian Phase having its damage reduction removed (reduced, sure. -15%?). But I don't think RS's should be running Guardian Phase while they're solo-farming, or running 38/28RS solo elite-killer builds. Also, +510% to damage for Annihilate? Wow. Combine that with Guardian Phase and win the game?

    EDIT: Haha ok, 5/10% is moar like it.
    Last edited by hairlessOrphan; 03-24-2011 at 11:51 AM.


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    I think people are just bad at playing riftstalkers because I hold single target and AoE agro better than my warrior tank friends. Maybe they are just bad, but I never have had a problem keeping all AoE agro while people are whaling on mobs with T2 gear.

    Riftstalker DPS is lower, but there is so much more utility and uses over a warrior tank. I can dodge skills that a warrior could only dream of being able to do (example: Iron Tomb first boss that debuff stacks you).

    Oh, and defer death has helped save many party wipes for me. I have even used it at times where I would have died but I still survived after it was used. It isn't an oh sh!t button, its more of a button that you have to think before using. That or the boss is almost dead and your cleric died for some reason and you can live for an extra 10 seconds allowing your DPS to finish the boss. This has happened quite a few times.

    In other words, I should just say l2p to sum all that up. I tank T2 dungeons amazingly well and make them seem easy.

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    Soulwalker Aazzdos1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairlessOrphan View Post
    I disagree with point generation on pull. At 51RS, you still have 15pts to subspecs that give you options to quickly generate points. Frankly, I think doing that part right is part of the difference between good and bad RS tanks.

    (In general, if there are weaknesses that can be mitigated without eroding the strengths of the role beyond usability, then I don't think there's a problem. For ex: you want splash Bard or splash Ranger anyway. Using range point builders out of those subspecs gets you to one full buff off the pull.)

    I also can't see Guardian Phase having its damage reduction removed (reduced, sure. -15%?). But I don't think RS's should be running Guardian Phase while they're solo-farming, or running 38/28RS solo elite-killer builds. Also, +510% to damage for Annihilate? Wow. Combine that with Guardian Phase and win the game?

    EDIT: Haha ok, 5/10% is moar like it.
    Rifties are forced to spend their 15 extra points on survival.

    You basically MUST have:

    51 in Riftstalker.

    5 in Bard.

    That gives you 10 free points.

    Then, you basically have to put 8 in ranger for mitigation, or you can go the 5-7 bladedancer route for avoidance / extra threat on dodging. I personally run 51 RS 8 Ranger 7 Bard and found it more reliable than BD. But spending those points to fix threat issues and ignoring survival talents is going to hurt you as a tank, when you really shouldn't have to.

    And yeah, sometimes I can afford to pull with ranger abilities. Some bosses aggro beyond that range and I don't have the time beyond a single quick shot before I need to blink in and begin tanking, some let you use the bleeding shot -> blink, most do not.

    I don't see why removing the damage reduction on Guardian Phase is crazy, just look at how far behind Warrior tanks we already are in damage. If you don't buff the damage by some means, you're 1/4 of a full DPSer down the drain just because of the misfortune of having a Rifty tank.

    Yeah, I liked +510% damage dealt too... but y'know..
    Aazzdos of <Clueless> - 50 Mathosian Rogue (Riftstalker) - Icewatch EU (PvE)
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    Soulwalker Aazzdos1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiz View Post
    I think people are just bad at playing riftstalkers because I hold single target and AoE agro better than my warrior tank friends. Maybe they are just bad, but I never have had a problem keeping all AoE agro while people are whaling on mobs with T2 gear.

    Riftstalker DPS is lower, but there is so much more utility and uses over a warrior tank. I can dodge skills that a warrior could only dream of being able to do (example: Iron Tomb first boss that debuff stacks you).

    Oh, and defer death has helped save many party wipes for me. I have even used it at times where I would have died but I still survived after it was used. It isn't an oh sh!t button, its more of a button that you have to think before using. That or the boss is almost dead and your cleric died for some reason and you can live for an extra 10 seconds allowing your DPS to finish the boss. This has happened quite a few times.

    In other words, I should just say l2p to sum all that up. I tank T2 dungeons amazingly well and make them seem easy.
    So your whole post is "l2p noob". Please see where it says "be constructive" in the original post. Why should Rifty tanks suffer from crappy damage (relative to other tanks) because they can compensate for lazy healers not cleansing you, as per your example?

    Defer Death is a joke, and your "use it when the boss is almost dead" is grasping at straws. When you're taking any meanginful damage whatsoever, you WILL die after those 10 seconds are up. If you don't, you weren't really taking much damage in the first place. All Defer Death is good for is jumping off huge heights (after a RoF clear) and giggling for 10 seconds before your head pops off.
    Aazzdos of <Clueless> - 50 Mathosian Rogue (Riftstalker) - Icewatch EU (PvE)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aazzdos1 View Post
    Rifties are forced to spend their 15 extra points on survival.

    You basically MUST have:

    51 in Riftstalker.

    5 in Bard.

    That gives you 10 free points.

    Then, you basically have to put 8 in ranger for mitigation, or you can go the 5-7 bladedancer route for avoidance / extra threat on dodging. I personally run 51 RS 8 Ranger 7 Bard and found it more reliable than BD. But spending those points to fix threat issues and ignoring survival talents is going to hurt you as a tank, when you really shouldn't have to.

    And yeah, sometimes I can afford to pull with ranger abilities. Some bosses aggro beyond that range and I don't have the time beyond a single quick shot before I need to blink in and begin tanking, some let you use the bleeding shot -> blink, most do not.

    I don't see why removing the damage reduction on Guardian Phase is crazy, just look at how far behind Warrior tanks we already are in damage. If you don't buff the damage by some means, you're 1/4 of a full DPSer down the drain just because of the misfortune of having a Rifty tank.

    Yeah, I liked +510% damage dealt too... but y'know..
    But you're not wasting any talent points at all. For ex: the range pull point-builders are root abilities out of the Ranger tree. Casted range shots burn off GCD before cast time is finished. Splinter Shot -> Quick Shot = 3 pts before the pull even knows you exist.

    I don't think increasing damage for RS's is crazy. I think removing Guardian Phase damage reduction is crazy. Currently, that damage reduction is the reason why you don't run it when you're not tanking. I don't think Imp. Guardian Phase should be a viable soloing buff.
    Last edited by hairlessOrphan; 03-24-2011 at 12:10 PM.


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    Never start a pull with blitz -> distortion. You lose 20% of threat of distortion if you do not have GS up. This is the easiest way to lose initial AoE threat.

    I'd prefer an offensive dispel to an interrupt. There's many classes that can interrupt, but only a rank 3 rogue can remove buffs from mobs and I shouldnt have to PvP to PvE.

    We need more DPS, that should already be a given. 120-150dps is pathetic and is a noticable loss in 5mans.

    Defer Death is a perfectly viable cooldown. Hint: it can be canceled early. Hint #2: Macros!

    Bard is overrated

    I support the Annihilate buff, little use to it now.
    Last edited by Rxauin; 03-24-2011 at 12:12 PM.

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    Soulwalker Aazzdos1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rxauin View Post
    Never start a pull with blitz -> distortion. You lose 20% of threat of distortion if you do not have GS up. This is the easiest way to lose initial AoE threat.

    I'd prefer an offensive dispel to an interrupt. There's many classes that can interrupt, but only a rank 3 rogue can remove buffs from mobs and I shouldnt have to PvP to PvE.

    We need more DPS, that should already be a given. 120-150dps is pathetic and is a noticable loss in 5mans.

    Defer Death is a perfectly viable cooldown. Hint: it can be canceled early. Hint #2: Macros!

    Bard is overrated

    I support the Annihilate buff, little use to it now.
    The proposed changes would make that AE rotation gel together, as GS would be up for a little while after the Blitz. But yes, what you've said works right now if the DPS waits for GS to click into place. It just feels tacky to need to scramble everything together before you're 'tanking', as opposed to rushing in, doing 'the AE thing' and then the DPS can do their job.

    I concur with rogues needing a purge. Maybe they can change Prison or Switch to something that's actually useful in PvE, like the purge you asked for and adding an interrupt somewhere else. I really think tanks that are always 'in' the fight should have at least one interrupt mechanic, as opposed to relying on the DPS to do it. There's a severe lack of interrupts in the game from what I can see, silences don't do arse in PvE except on trash.

    Yes, our DPS is horrendous. Half a warrior tank's.

    Huh, I tried clicking off Defer before and it didn't work. I'll look into it. It still feels tacky for a tank cooldown, for what it can potentially do to the situation V our other two cooldowns. I think a buff to our shield wall would be preferable, but each to their own.

    They are. But you mean for rifties? 10% Health looks pretty crazy to me. What do you run?
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    On my build i try to go Riftstalker-bladedancer so i can get more dodge/parry with False Blade and the 5% passive dodge, i also buff my team with the 5% crit finisher this adds to my survivability and usefulness however i need to do 3 finisher before i am as efficient as i can be this means i will be getting hammered for at least 15 seconds prior to be even remotely comparable to warrior tanks in terms of damage reduction alone, i don't think there is even a need to talk about the pitiful damage we do.

    That is in PvE... in PvP while a warrior tank can be effective a riftstalker tank can not because all this damage reduction and avoidance does not come naturally and you will be bursted down to a pulp before you even get a chance to use all the buffing finishers... that and anyone that removes your buffs turns you into squishy jelly.
    * LAG is when you get latency related problems. (such as teleporting)
    * Low FPS(Frames Per Second) is when the game starts to stutter and it looks like pictures instead of fluid movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siveon View Post
    On my build i try to go Riftstalker-bladedancer so i can get more dodge/parry with False Blade and the 5% passive dodge, i also buff my team with the 5% crit finisher this adds to my survivability and usefulness however i need to do 3 finisher before i am as efficient as i can be this means i will be getting hammered for at least 15 seconds prior to be even remotely comparable to warrior tanks in terms of damage reduction alone, i don't think there is even a need to talk about the pitiful damage we do.

    That is in PvE... in PvP while a warrior tank can be effective a riftstalker tank can not because all this damage reduction and avoidance does not come naturally and you will be bursted down to a pulp before you even get a chance to use all the buffing finishers... that and anyone that removes your buffs turns you into squishy jelly.
    Yes, and that's the whole problem. Rifties have a wind-up time before we're a 'real tank'. As far as I know, Warriors do not. These changes would cut out the wind-up time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiz View Post
    I think people are just bad at playing riftstalkers because I hold single target and AoE agro better than my warrior tank friends. Maybe they are just bad, but I never have had a problem keeping all AoE agro while people are whaling on mobs with T2 gear.
    They must be bad. Frankly, Riftstalker is the worst tank for building AoE threat. That's not really subjective, that's just the result of the tools they've been given. A Reaver or a Justicar will well outdo a Riftstalker in AoE threat, all things considered.

    Anything else I'll agree with in your post, though I still don't like Defer Death's design. It's useful in situations where you've already screwed up and you're dead certain not going to pull through. Why plan a talent around things going horribly wrong? In a situation where things are going *right*, there's zero benefit to using it. Also, take it off the GCD if it's meant to be used only in "oh god, we're all dead anyways" situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aazzdos1 View Post
    The proposed changes would make that AE rotation gel together, as GS would be up for a little while after the Blitz. But yes, what you've said works right now if the DPS waits for GS to click into place. It just feels tacky to need to scramble everything together before you're 'tanking', as opposed to rushing in, doing 'the AE thing' and then the DPS can do their job.

    I concur with rogues needing a purge. Maybe they can change Prison or Switch to something that's actually useful in PvE, like the purge you asked for and adding an interrupt somewhere else. I really think tanks that are always 'in' the fight should have at least one interrupt mechanic, as opposed to relying on the DPS to do it. There's a severe lack of interrupts in the game from what I can see, silences don't do arse in PvE except on trash.

    Yes, our DPS is horrendous. Half a warrior tank's.

    Huh, I tried clicking off Defer before and it didn't work. I'll look into it. It still feels tacky for a tank cooldown, for what it can potentially do to the situation V our other two cooldowns. I think a buff to our shield wall would be preferable, but each to their own.

    They are. But you mean for rifties? 10% Health looks pretty crazy to me. What do you run?
    Blitz should hold intial aggro long enough to get GS and distortion in. Better yet, ranger gives you 3 combo points on the blitz giving you a 3 point GS right away.

    I run 51rift/8blade/7rng for T2's and raids. This gives 4 cooldowns, one of which (dodge) can be used offensively to hold threat on infinatly large groups. We've pulled 3 groups at a time and survived with dodge and other CD's. blade is only a loss of 5% health and 500 armor (that doesnt get buffed by GS) If you really miss that 500 armor, Thin Armor Plating is REALLY cheap on the AH and lasts 4 hours.

    I'd miss planar switch. Makes holding 4 targets vs t2 geared dps easy. However, buffing dps would buff AoE threat and make switch useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aazzdos1 View Post
    Yes, and that's the whole problem. Rifties have a wind-up time before we're a 'real tank'. As far as I know, Warriors do not. These changes would cut out the wind-up time.
    The wind up is trivial:

    1. Phase shift into combat

    2. Get Rift Guard up 1-2 combos will do

    3. Get Defense up 1-2 combos will do

    4. Basic rotation, oh my!

    Rift Stalkers are more then viable and easily on par with any other tank. If they weren't I wouldn't bring one as a MT for my raids. Right now you have myself tanking as a Reaver/Paladin/Warlord and a Riftstalker. Those are the raid MTs and we have litte to no issue with "dying" due to ramp up times or damage. Most everything right now is mechanic based.

    As for T1/2 Dungeons... welcome to T1/2 dungeons! T1 is a joke once you get some gear and most everything in T2 outside of DD and maybe DSM for some is very managable as a tank. I also have a Rifstalker, 42 in beta and 29 in live and they still function as good, if not better, then my Reaver. Hell the only reason I haven't swapped to the Rifstalker full time is that it's easier to gear out one Rogue and one Warrior MT then 2 Rogue MTs.

    You are doing one of two things:

    1. Playing wrong and dying to poor skill.
    2. Playing with others who are doing it wrong or poorly skilled.
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


  15. #15
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Santa Barbara, California
    Posts
    25

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    I started chose rogue initially because I loved the idea of playing bard and being support. I have been 50 for almost 2 weeks and my groups tank is not on as much as we had hoped. I am trying to get the hang of tanking but I am clearly missing somthing because certain mobs pound me.
    Let me say it for anyone that was thinking it... "I need to L2P riftstalker", I fully admit it. I would love some feedback on how I can improve, T1s are killing me.

    Build is 44RS/14Brd/8BD. To start, I would like to know what the key minimums are for (armor, toughness, dodge, parry, and HP. Also any other stat you think is valuable that I am not adding.)

    When I start tanking I powerchord for 2 combo points, rift in with "shadowblitz" for multiple mobs for a third combo point and use guarded steal. I use "rift disturbance" followed by another powerchord so I can use rift guard with 3 more combo points. I continue to use "rift disturbance when it's up and powerchord along with "planar strike or phantom blow". (which of those two should I be using primarily btw) After getting 3 more combo points I put up false blade and start generating combo points for a full guarded steal. I try and cycle them to keep them all up but ensure i never let guarded steal drop. Holding hate has not been an issue, but taking damage has been. Admittedly, I only have 1 purple armor piece. All others are blue but sadly 1 is only a level 48 blue so the armor is lower than it could be. I do not have a tanking specific set of gear yet, so I use the same gear for PVP as I do for PVE so I don't have maxed End from runes either. I am sitting at 7500HP with improved guardian phase up and all the other HP buffs.
    I would love to hear all helpful hints and criticisms, I am probably my own worst critic so you can't hurt my feelings. Thank in advance.

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