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Thread: What rogue soul IS worthwhile to play at 50?

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default What rogue soul IS worthwhile to play at 50?

    Maybe I'm just disillusioned, but after reaching level 50 and comparing my class to that of my guild mates or others in instance runs, warfronts, etc. I'm starting to wonder if picking a rogue was just a bad idea. It seems to me that of the 4 classes the rogue class is the weakest of them all. Our healing soul (Bard) is lackluster and as many players on this forum have attested you only ever really need one bard in an entire raid for the buffs. And in a 5-man instance the benefit of a bard's buffs and off-healing isn't greater than that of simply bringing another straight up DPS class to enable your group to kill stuff faster.

    Our tank soul is riddled with issues and mediocre at best when compared to warrior or cleric tanking ability. Of our three melee DPS souls (bladedancer, nightblade, and assassin) all three pale in comparison to warrior, mage, or even cleric DPS (maybe sins can get close), and one of the three (bladedancer), well I won't even go there its so bad. This pretty much leaves our ranges DPS souls, ranger, marksman, and sabo. Sabo apparently was putting out some good DPS, but due to PvP complaints its going to get knocked down a peg or two. And ranger/MM builds are great for soling and leveling, but their DPS seems to drop off and not rival that of other DPS classes at 50.

    I feel as if the rogue class has an identity crisis. Warriors make great tanks or if specced for DPS have phenomenal DPS (some of the top in the game). Mages make great healers (an odd concept in the traditional sense, but lets roll with it) or they can put out some outstanding damage. And clerics make for great tanks, very good healers, and even good DPSers. What does this leave for the rogue class?

    I was very hopeful that Rift's varied soul system would produce a wide range of combinations within each class and we would have dozens of useful and varied specs. But as it stands, it seems as if after only a few weeks of live play gamers have figure out the best cookie-cutter specs and one whole class (rogue) is struggling to find its place in Telara.

    Anyway, this is just my feelings about the rogue class at level 50, and yours may differ.
    Last edited by Godzillamax; 03-24-2011 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Default Unfortunately...

    Rogue is in a bit of a sad state at the moment. Currently, the only viable rogue souls for both PvE and PvP are bard and saboteurs. I personally prefer assassin and continue to use it in world PvP; but when it comes to doing a 5-man expert dungeon or a Warfront, the only souls that do not diminish the overall effectiveness of your group is bard and saboteur. If/when the alpha patch is pushed to the live servers, saboteurs will become rather mediocre like the other rogue souls. Bard seems like it will still be an average soul for PvE, at least where 5-man dungeons are concerned, however in warfronts they will be insignificant.

    I've temporarily retired my 50 rogue because of the above reasons and I am currently leveling a mage until rogues are given some attention.

    Just my opinion on the matter.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makh Khasti View Post
    Rogue is in a bit of a sad state at the moment. Currently, the only viable rogue souls for both PvE and PvP are bard and saboteurs. I personally prefer assassin and continue to use it in world PvP; but when it comes to doing a 5-man expert dungeon or a Warfront, the only souls that do not diminish the overall effectiveness of your group is bard and saboteur. If/when the alpha patch is pushed to the live servers, saboteurs will become rather mediocre like the other rogue souls. Bard seems like it will still be an average soul for PvE, at least where 5-man dungeons are concerned, however in warfronts they will be insignificant.

    I've temporarily retired my 50 rogue because of the above reasons and I am currently leveling a mage until rogues are given some attention.

    Just my opinion on the matter.
    I agree with most of what you stated, except the part about bards being one of the few viable rogue souls. I've got a lvl 50 (51 point) bard and I can attest that it is NOT a necessary class to bring to a 5-man group. In fact, I would go so far as to say having a bard in your group will make you less effective than simply bringing another DPS class. What logic do I use to make this assumption? I've ran instances with my bard, then re-ran them (same group of players) instead on my DPS soul and the DPS I put out is of greater value than the utility/buffs my bard brings to the table. With my bard as the 5th person in a group it simply takes longer to kill stuff. But, the added utility from the bard (buffs HoTs) doesn't increase the DPS (or add enough healing) of the other group members sufficiently to warrant bringing a bard over another DPSer. Also an important facet of this is that with a 3rd DPSer (versus a bard) mobs die faster which lessens the strain on your groups sole healer.

  4. #4
    Shadowlander Findlyn's Avatar
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    Rogues honestly need a way to increase energy regeneration, or we need more easily accessible ways to ignore armor. I dont want this to be wow rogue 2.0 and suggest a finisher that increase's our dmg output passively such as through increased attack speed. But I could really see a easy to get finisher in several trees that would fit being able to ignore % of armor for a time period. NB would be a lot better off if Scourge of Darkness had no CD or a lot shorter CD.

    Part of the problem stems from the fact most of our dmg is primarily from Weapon DPS, then crit, not much else. They need to maybe increase our stat modifiers, or talents to make up for it.

  5. #5
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    I'd agree with what you said 100%. My 5 man group we usually have a cleric or chloro solo healing or a combo of both of them. It seems slower and less effective usually with a bard replacing the chloro. I know they are getting a bit of a change but for the most part the previous post speaks the truth.

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    Champion Red Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Findlyn View Post
    Rogues honestly need a way to increase energy regeneration, or we need more easily accessible ways to ignore armor. I dont want this to be wow rogue 2.0 and suggest a finisher that increase's our dmg output passively such as through increased attack speed. But I could really see a easy to get finisher in several trees that would fit being able to ignore % of armor for a time period. NB would be a lot better off if Scourge of Darkness had no CD or a lot shorter CD.

    Part of the problem stems from the fact most of our dmg is primarily from Weapon DPS, then crit, not much else. They need to maybe increase our stat modifiers, or talents to make up for it.
    Bard had an energy regen motif but they removed the effect. Now you can prance around with a bunch of critters for 15 seconds instead.

    Bards remind me of Chanters in Aion a lot, they could buff and heal just the same as bards but in the end you'd be better off just taking 2 DPS' to kill stuff a lot faster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dink View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    go play a fps pvp in mmorpgs did nothing but bring out the worst in the cummunity
    In one post, you've managed to bring out the worst in capitalization, punctuation and spelling.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Findlyn View Post
    Rogues honestly need a way to increase energy regeneration, or we need more easily accessible ways to ignore armor. I dont want this to be wow rogue 2.0 and suggest a finisher that increase's our dmg output passively such as through increased attack speed. But I could really see a easy to get finisher in several trees that would fit being able to ignore % of armor for a time period. NB would be a lot better off if Scourge of Darkness had no CD or a lot shorter CD.

    Part of the problem stems from the fact most of our dmg is primarily from Weapon DPS, then crit, not much else. They need to maybe increase our stat modifiers, or talents to make up for it.
    A problem I see with finishers that boost stats or an ability is that they are only good on boss mobs or fights that last over 3-5 minutes. Most trash mobs either die too quickly for the buff from the finisher to be of use, or the trash packs require AEing and not single target attacks to build combo points. And if you happen to build the combo points and use a finisher that grants a buff (+AP, etc.) it typically only lasts 45-60 seconds and by the time your group moves from trash pack 1 to trash pack 2 your buff will have worn off.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Dark Lord Natas's Avatar
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    Play the soul that suits your personal taste. I love the assassin. I am told I am suppose to suck in WF and in Raids. But, I play it anyway because I love the soul. And guess what, it really doesn't suck at all. I have a blast playing it and I would not have it any other way. So, listen to others if you want, but they really do not hold any great answers for you.

  9. #9
    Rift Master Spitefull's Avatar
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    I agree and ask Trion what for is this soul you created : Bladedancer ?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzillamax View Post
    A problem I see with finishers that boost stats or an ability is that they are only good on boss mobs or fights that last over 3-5 minutes. Most trash mobs either die too quickly for the buff from the finisher to be of use, or the trash packs require AEing and not single target attacks to build combo points. And if you happen to build the combo points and use a finisher that grants a buff (+AP, etc.) it typically only lasts 45-60 seconds and by the time your group moves from trash pack 1 to trash pack 2 your buff will have worn off.
    I disagree. 60 seconds is actually a long time. Yes, the buffs require constant refreshing, but 60s is long enough to do that. Keeping that in mind you should design your build around utilizing those buffs during point-generation, and not as a way to regularly mega-boost a finisher or point-free special for awesome spike damage.


    Orphan <Prophecy>

  11. #11
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    reroll mage/warrior. sadly, taking rogues actually hurts your group both in pvp and pve.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Findlyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzillamax View Post
    A problem I see with finishers that boost stats or an ability is that they are only good on boss mobs or fights that last over 3-5 minutes. Most trash mobs either die too quickly for the buff from the finisher to be of use, or the trash packs require AEing and not single target attacks to build combo points. And if you happen to build the combo points and use a finisher that grants a buff (+AP, etc.) it typically only lasts 45-60 seconds and by the time your group moves from trash pack 1 to trash pack 2 your buff will have worn off.
    True, but that is why i think rogues CPs should carry over like the warriors ability thing does. It would be anymore broken for PvP compared to warriors, IMO. Its also why I like at least 16 points in NB for groups, you get 2 spammable non CP generating AoE. I really wish BD was more viable, cause it goes very well with NB. But he problem with BD is half the tree seems like its meant for soloing/off tank. And half the abilities we gain from the tree, are useless. Considering you usually have a bard, so there is no need for Combat Preparation and Dauntless Strike buff.

    Also, while Blade Tempo and Double Coup seem nice, I think they need shorter CDs.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Lord Natas View Post
    Play the soul that suits your personal taste. I love the assassin. I am told I am suppose to suck in WF and in Raids. But, I play it anyway because I love the soul. And guess what, it really doesn't suck at all. I have a blast playing it and I would not have it any other way. So, listen to others if you want, but they really do not hold any great answers for you.
    Well, I'm mostly speaking from a PvE perspective. I loved my EQ bard (and maybe that is the problem, it set the bar so high). But my bard in Rift IMO is just a poorly designed soul (no pun intended). In EQ a bard's damage primarily came from melee damage that was enhanced by the bards songs. Those songs also enhanced the groups damage. So a bard in EQ was comparable to another class when you factored the utility he brought to the group PLUS his damage. In Rift a (51 point) bard is pretty much reduced to spamming cadence (for the healing effect) and refreshing five motifs every 30 seconds. And in a raid you only need 1 bard since his/her buffs affect all 20 players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Findlyn View Post
    True, but that is why i think rogues CPs should carry over like the warriors ability thing does. It would be anymore broken for PvP compared to warriors, IMO. Its also why I like at least 16 points in NB for groups, you get 2 spammable non CP generating AoE. I really wish BD was more viable, cause it goes very well with NB. But he problem with BD is half the tree seems like its meant for soloing/off tank. And half the abilities we gain from the tree, are useless. Considering you usually have a bard, so there is no need for Combat Preparation and Dauntless Strike buff.

    Also, while Blade Tempo and Double Coup seem nice, I think they need shorter CDs.
    My DPS rogue soul is bladedancer/nightblade. I like it and it is a decent soloing spec, but that is about the end of its usefulness. Conversely, a DPS mage, DPS warrior, or DPS cleric can solo far better than my bladedancer/nightblade spec AND their DPS spec is also of value in a group or raid.

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    Rift Disciple Dark Lord Natas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzillamax View Post
    Well, I'm mostly speaking from a PvE perspective. I loved my EQ bard (and maybe that is the problem, it set the bar so high). But my bard in Rift IMO is just a poorly designed soul (no pun intended). In EQ a bard's damage primarily came from melee damage that was enhanced by the bards songs. Those songs also enhanced the groups damage. So a bard in EQ was comparable to another class when you factored the utility he brought to the group PLUS his damage. In Rift a (51 point) bard is pretty much reduced to spamming cadence (for the healing effect) and refreshing five motifs every 30 seconds. And in a raid you only need 1 bard since his/her buffs affect all 20 players.
    Maybe a Cleric soul will be something you like? Any Clerics out there? I haven't tried one so I don't want to speak in that department.

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