+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Changes are badly needed fro melee Rogue Souls

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    116

    Default Changes are badly needed fro melee Rogue Souls

    First of all, the entire Rogue class falls way behind the Cleric/Mage/Warrior in sustained DPS and Burst. Those that have Parsed have shown that the best rogue (even pre-nerf Sabo spec) can only muster around 750-800 DPS while an equally gear offensive pre-nerf Warrior was sitting at 1000-1100 DPS, Cleric is at 800-900, and Mage is at 900-1000. A light armored, offensive spec'd Rogue should have more dmg output than a Warrior with plate armor and a Cleric with self heals PERIOD. I'm ok with Mages dmg since they are in cloth; however, I have found that most mitigate dmg pretty well and can chain CC as well.

    Melee Rogues, and really all rogues in general should have dmg that is comparable to Mages... and greater than Warriors and Clerics. Here are a few ideas that would not sustantially change the game...

    Assassin - Role: Burst DPS; Escape
    1) Backstab needs at least 50% armor penetration (this could solve a lot of proplems)
    2) Virulent Posion needs a stat/crit debuff or avoidance debuff
    3) Slip Away needs a longer immunity timer or a 20m port to prevent the rogue from imediately being uncovered by AoE
    4) I would perfer to see the posions act more like DoTs rather than a straight dmg add...
    could help with kiting

    Nightblade - Role: Sustained melee DPS (anti-caster)
    1) Ebon Fury needs to have its cooldown shortened to 60s.
    2) Dark Containment needs to be able to land on someone who's in-combat
    3) Fiery Chains is pretty much worthless as is... suggest changing it to a burst ability that allows weapons enhancements to apply on every attack for 15sec 60sec cooldown.
    4) Smother needs to have the "from stealth" prerequisite removed

    Bladedancer - Role: Sustained melee DPS (anti-melee)
    1) The Rythmic Exhaustion system is fatally flawed. Remove Exhaustion altogether and limit the Bladedancer to 1 Rythmic ability at a time with 30-45s cooldowns.
    2) Blade Finesse should improve parry by up to 5% and not autoattack.
    3) Mass Subdue should work on players that are in-combat.
    4) Why limit Twin Strike to 2 players? Why is there falloff on Compound Attack and limit to 3 players? Would like to see these both upped to 10 for a viable dungeon spec.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Grabeq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nfrad View Post
    First of all, the entire Rogue class falls way behind the Cleric/Mage/Warrior in sustained DPS and Burst. Those that have Parsed have shown that the best rogue (even pre-nerf Sabo spec) can only muster around 750-800 DPS while an equally gear offensive pre-nerf Warrior was sitting at 1000-1100 DPS, Cleric is at 800-900, and Mage is at 900-1000. A light armored, offensive spec'd Rogue should have more dmg output than a Warrior with plate armor and a Cleric with self heals PERIOD. I'm ok with Mages dmg since they are in cloth; however, I have found that most mitigate dmg pretty well and can chain CC as well.

    Melee Rogues, and really all rogues in general should have dmg that is comparable to Mages... and greater than Warriors and Clerics. Here are a few ideas that would not sustantially change the game...

    Assassin - Role: Burst DPS; Escape
    1) Backstab needs at least 50% armor penetration (this could solve a lot of proplems)
    2) Virulent Posion needs a stat/crit debuff or avoidance debuff
    3) Slip Away needs a longer immunity timer or a 20m port to prevent the rogue from imediately being uncovered by AoE
    4) I would perfer to see the posions act more like DoTs rather than a straight dmg add...
    could help with kiting

    Nightblade - Role: Sustained melee DPS (anti-caster)
    1) Ebon Fury needs to have its cooldown shortened to 60s.
    2) Dark Containment needs to be able to land on someone who's in-combat
    3) Fiery Chains is pretty much worthless as is... suggest changing it to a burst ability that allows weapons enhancements to apply on every attack for 15sec 60sec cooldown.
    4) Smother needs to have the "from stealth" prerequisite removed

    Bladedancer - Role: Sustained melee DPS (anti-melee)
    1) The Rythmic Exhaustion system is fatally flawed. Remove Exhaustion altogether and limit the Bladedancer to 1 Rythmic ability at a time with 30-45s cooldowns.
    2) Blade Finesse should improve parry by up to 5% and not autoattack.
    3) Mass Subdue should work on players that are in-combat.
    4) Why limit Twin Strike to 2 players? Why is there falloff on Compound Attack and limit to 3 players? Would like to see these both upped to 10 for a viable dungeon spec.

    And I second that. Melee rogues are so weak in PvP right now. I understand low survivability, but i can't understand such a low damage output. It should work like that - you got a sin on your back, you are dead mate, unless you are a tank. Now it works like that - you got a sin on your back - oh,what? lol.

    Imho melee rogues are useless in warfronts, and only subpar in PvE, cuz any other class can do better.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    810

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grabeq View Post
    And I second that. Melee rogues are so weak in PvP right now. I understand low survivability, but i can't understand such a low damage output. It should work like that - you got a sin on your back, you are dead mate, unless you are a tank. Now it works like that - you got a sin on your back - oh,what? lol.

    Imho melee rogues are useless in warfronts, and only subpar in PvE, cuz any other class can do better.
    So your idea of balance is that if an Assassin is attacking you and you're not a tank you lose?
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    So your idea of balance is that if an Assassin is attacking you and you're not a tank you lose?
    I think you are taking this statement out of context... I don't think anyone is looking for early DAoC 2-shot kills on casters... However, an Assassin standing behind you should be a deadly threat and not a mere nusiance. You could equate this to a Mage freecasting on you and chosing to ignore them.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Pipra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    So your idea of balance is that if an Assassin is attacking you and you're not a tank you lose?
    I think that if the Assassin gets the drop on you from stealth, the cards should be heavily in his favor.

    On the other hand, if an Assassin is caught out of stealth and has to go toe-to-toe on equal footing, he should be at a disadvantage.

  6. #6
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    605

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipra View Post
    I think that if the Assassin gets the drop on you from stealth, the cards should be heavily in his favor.

    On the other hand, if an Assassin is caught out of stealth and has to go toe-to-toe on equal footing, he should be at a disadvantage.
    Despite the fact Sin's already fight like that anyway?

    I really don't get why people are struggling so badly with Sin's at all, is it your damage rotation? Your Build? The Fact you open with stun rather than a heavy bleed when the element of suprise is all you need?

    I've had a Sin/NB for a while and the only classes I struggle to kill are lock/necro's and those oh so annoying spear spamming RB's but I'm not bothered because on a fight for fight basis, I usually come out on top, full hp or down to the last sliver, all that matters is there blood soils the dirt and I'm still standing.

    So what If sometimes I have to blow cooldowns to win the fight? That's why they are there.

    Heres what I reckon I'm doing differently to others....

    My build is a Hybrid build of Sin/NB/BD basically 32/18/16 I'll explain why shortly, but heres the build

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...st0bodbR.VV0Vz

    My attack from stealth rotation is as follows:

    Jagged strike, Savage strike, Malcious Strike, Impale, Foul play, Expose Weakness, Ebon Fury, Dusk Strike, Dusk Strike, Malcious Strike, Final blow.

    If not dead follow with:
    Slip away, Paralysing Strike, Dusk Strike, Impale, Expose Weakness, Savage Strike, Malcious Strike, Dusk Strike, Final blow.

    If I'm losing badly: Slip away + Sprint (Sprint does not break stealth) to get out of range before they AoE

    If slip away gets broken: Pop twilight shelter to make sure I get away.

    If facing a caster, I have Weapon Barrage so stun isn't always neccessary, stun is mainly for making sure they 1: Stay still and 2: Lose Focus

    Stun has a real psychological factor in PvP against certain targets, stunning makes people mad, the fact you have stun on demand really helps the psychological warfare.

    Useful toys from the build and why I took it:

    The reason I took this build is because there is enough to prepare you for any situation you might face, Dodge for fighting melee classes, Elemental damage against heavily physical protected, a ranged finisher for runners, quite possibly the best interupt you could ever ask for, a restealth, a massive damage reduction, 2 stuns, and several ways to help you escape if things turn ugly.

    Admittedly the build suffers from a lack of stun protection but since you have unlimited stealth, its always a smart move to do what sins are supposed to do "Assess the situation, your target and most importantly there capabilities before you attack"

    Remember you are a squishy Ambush class, your job is to catch your opponents by suprise and take them out, even if you die but take down your target, you have done your job.

    Bleeds play a massive factor in the dps output and just how quick you can kill someone, the more pressure you can apply from poisons/bleeds the more the fight will turn in your favor (forcing a healer into healing rather than damaging is a good indicator that you are winning because they are no longer thinking about your health, but there own, you are winning the psychological war)

    The most common mistake I see from most Sin players is the use of blind powder, Blind powder should not be used in the middle of the fight when the target is already bleeding, it's just a wasted cooldown....however blind powder is useful if:

    A: they are trying to cast/channel and weapon barrage is on CD
    B: someone tries to join in, blind them and carry on.

    Anyway appologies for waffling on for so long, I hope this short, guide type post helps those that are struggling.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts