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Thread: Are Assassins mad?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badandbald1 View Post
    Mage vs warrior = Warrior wins
    Cleric vs warrior = Warrior wins.
    And previously you stated that
    Rogue vs Warrior = Warrior wins

    Who exactly is supposed to kill Warriors, just other Warriors?

  2. #47
    Telaran Ferociae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodthorne View Post
    Assassin and every other rogue melee soul need to use hit 'n run tactics. Go in with stealth, stun your target (rogue, mage or cleric is recommended), burst him, stun again with foul play, burst again. Target not dead? RUN!!!
    Stop. Opening. With. Stun.
    You just lost credibility as an assassin who knows anything about their class.
    Like the girl who asked me "isn't life so sad when all you do is live?"

  3. #48
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    I wouldnt mind if they upped our DPS a bit - it is a little bit low compared to Wars etc.

    But i havent been having huge issues in PVP. When i get the jump on someone (and you should get the jump on someone - its one of Assassins biggest strengths) - i can generally beat them. The turning point for me was when i stopped using Slip Away as an escape tactic, and more as a damage / stun tactic / reapply poison tactic.

    I jumped a healer the other day in Stillmoore -

    Jagged > Backstab > Serpent > Impale > Foul Play > Puncture > Backstab > Malicious Strike > Backstab > Final Blow > Slip Away > Paralysing > Serpent > Backstab - dead.

    There is no need to stun on the initial jump, because they will most likely take 2-3 seconds to realise they have been jumped anyway.

    I would generally re-apply jagged with the Slip Away, but since i was fighting a healer i wanted to keep him stunned for aslong as possible when he is low health which is why i went Paralysing instead.
    Last edited by Sqwire; 03-24-2011 at 03:43 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferociae View Post
    Stop. Opening. With. Stun.
    You just lost credibility as an assassin who knows anything about their class.
    Wait, wait. Who are you attacking with your jagged strike opener? Assassins aren't meant to take dmg, using your stuns mean you don't take dmg. Lol at people on the forums trying to claim superiority.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodthorne View Post
    ********, l2p.

    Assassin and every other rogue melee soul need to use hit 'n run tactics. Go in with stealth, stun your target (rogue, mage or cleric is recommended), burst him, stun again with foul play, burst again. Target not dead? RUN!!!

    Everywhere i look, i read "rogues suck" but whenever im playing in a WF, I am one of the most damaging people from everyone in that warfront... and im ****ing bladedancer!

    Balance is not a simple formula like you suggest:
    squishyness + damage = constant
    It's ******ed to think like. For one the whole "squishy" part is list of different stats that you need to fill out. Damage comes in many forms all with different mechanics.

    in 1v1, tanks (s+s) should ALWAYS win against DPS rogues that just "stand there and hit the tank". As a rogue you need to OUTTHINK your opponent and thus OUTPLAY them. A frontal assault is death in most cases. This isnt unbalance, this is how the game WORKS. You are supposed to get in, deal damage, get out. Not go in, deal damage, get hit, die, run to forums how imba something is.

    A full specced warrior should be on par damage wise with a full specced DPS rogue. The rogue wins due to stealth, dodge/parry, high burst, ranged attacks, stronger finishers, escape moves, etc.

    Whatever your argument is against it, it's wrong. Warriors and rogues do NOT have the same role in PVP, they never have and never will.
    Yeah, I wish this worked, but it takes forever to get out of combat in this game, every war tank spec has 9000 ranged attacks, dots, tons of DPS/charges/roots/death grip etc. By the time you get out of combat, your opponent will be as well, and he'll just drink water, which regens hp at a COMPLETELY STUPID rate in this game, making any DOT kiting tactics pointless and impossible.
    Last edited by ShiyoKozuki; 03-24-2011 at 04:44 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekryth View Post
    Wait, wait. Who are you attacking with your jagged strike opener? Assassins aren't meant to take dmg, using your stuns mean you don't take dmg. Lol at people on the forums trying to claim superiority.
    Yes you're right

    The 1k burst from assassinate or the 3k damage from jagged strike is definitely less useful than the extra 2 seconds from opening with paralyzing strike.

  7. #52
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    I have sin/BD as off-spec and can tell you for a fact that they are not balanced.

    I still enjoy the play style though, but don't kid yourself, they are not balanced with the Warriors/Clerics. Not even a little bit.

    The sin/bd is not a strong class for WF either. They can kill someone who is being ganked, another scout or a sleeping mage; that's about it.

    Sin have the least defence and they have to melee, therefore should have the most offence; this is obvious.

    I would suggest increasing the damage somewhat and making all of their abilities/temps/buffs usable in stealth..
    Last edited by Pyrolytic; 03-24-2011 at 05:01 PM.
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  8. #53
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    I hate to say this but as my Sin I can kill anyone in world pvp well I tend to avoid trying to kill tanks (well duh).

    and in Wfs I can kill fang holders/people trying to get objs in codex ofc 1 on 1.

    Dont have OMG wtf gear just normal pvp 1- 3 gear hell I even got blue daggers.

    Dont get me wrong a buff wuld be nice but i'd be happy with a warrior nerf and leave it at that.


    "Sin have the least defence" well first we have slip away saved me countless times, then we have 5 secs of spell immune see pvp tree. oh? and stealth? cant gank what they cant see.

    okay now give me a rogue class what dosnt get ganked or has more escape/def abiltys say riftstalker sure gl killing anyone.
    Last edited by May Contain Nuts; 03-24-2011 at 05:15 PM.

  9. #54
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    Wont let me edit it again just wanted to add.....


    We have Warrior builds grousely out dpsing us in every aspect even though our sole role is DPS. We have Mages smashing us before we can even get near them, we have Clerics laughing at us while they just heal through our damage output and some of our other Counterpart rogue brethern seem to be able to shadow us also.

    Notice the red? okay first bit of red why are u running at mages not in stealth?
    2nd bit? healing debuff in pvp tree and kill it. Besides even if you dont kill him you've forced him to stop healing his target and heal him self.

  10. #55
    Telaran Ferociae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekryth View Post
    Wait, wait. Who are you attacking with your jagged strike opener? Assassins aren't meant to take dmg, using your stuns mean you don't take dmg. Lol at people on the forums trying to claim superiority.
    You call it egotism, I call it an intolerance for stupidity.
    Either way I'm right.

    The 1k burst from assassinate or the 3k damage from jagged strike is definitely less useful than the extra 2 seconds from opening with paralyzing strike.
    Like the girl who asked me "isn't life so sad when all you do is live?"

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by May Contain Nuts View Post
    "Sin have the least defence" well first we have slip away saved me countless times, then we have 5 secs of spell immune see pvp tree. oh? and stealth? cant gank what they cant see.
    So you can sit in stealth next to that rock, because when you come out, even my bard will laugh at your DPS as even he heals through it....

    You have slip away on a 2 min cool down that is effective in PvE assuming you don't have a dot on you. It also resets the encounter.

    Slip away in PvP (WF/open) is alright IF you don't get dott'ed, otherwise, whats the point? prolonging death? or on occasion you can escape and effectively achieve nothing.. grats
    Last edited by Pyrolytic; 03-24-2011 at 05:42 PM.
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  12. #57
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    I can understand pvper's being upset, but I would like complain on behalf of us pver's, its a sad day when the class that is suppose to have the highest single target dps in the game, is only welcome in a raid as a support healer or a buffadin (bard).

  13. #58
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    I find my efforts are best spent stealing points in codex. Half the time I can do it right in front of the enemy if I stealth up and they are focused on my team.

    when I'm defending I stay stealthed and look for people off to the side or if I see someone burst down a cleric to half, I jump in and stun lock them for a few seconds and often that's enough to give teamates they chance to get them down the other half.

    Yes, Jagged strike does more dmg. But the confusion and delays caused by my short stun lock are often enough to let my team finish the job, or to delay heals people they're fighting are getting.

    I don't even look at my dmg done any more. I have fun stealthing in, sowing some confusion or a short burst to kill someone already wounded then get the hell out so I can stealth and repeat.


    If Iget caught in the open or surrounded, I understandably get messed up.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azath View Post
    bloodthorne has it spot on, most of the qq rogues need to learn to play and stop thinking their job is to stand in the frontlines for minutes on end. It takes 5 secs to get out of combat in this game, hide behind a rock till you can stealth when you need to. Maybe hit and run tactics arent great in black garden, but they are very useful in the other 3 warfronts, a good sin can basically lockdown a capture point on his own if the enemy trickles in (like the vault in codex)

    People like Ekryth are the problem - "i cant kill a healer in my sin/bd spec" while- since BD is a melee, utility soul that is good for counterng other melee classesare you really that suprised that you lack tools to kill a caster? If you want a heal debuff either go infiltrator or NB (you have 4 roles for a reason)- or, que with a warrior that is running the heal debuff on crit ability and make a /assist macro or just use target of target. pvp is team effort, not a one man show.
    For starters, people like bloodthorne need to learn how to play, opening with Paralyzing strike is a waste when you can open with Jagged Strike, Foul Play (Stun), Punture, Imaple, Slip Away, *Paralyzing Strike*, Punture, Back Stab, Finishing Blow. Now, even if you try this in PvP you still won't win, you might against severely undergeared players, but most people can live through it with potions OR remove the effects with skills and potions, do most of you even know that there is poison removing potions?

    So in essence, we get one Slip Away window every 2 mins to effectively *gank* someone.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodthorne View Post
    If that is the game you want to play. I suggest calling friends over for some Rock, Paper, Scissors!

    Any soul needs to have a chance of winning. So in a truly balanced game, win chance is always 50%? No, ofcourse. Just because you have less then 50% chance to win, doesnt mean it's impossible. Counter classes make the game fun and keeps you on your toes.

    Warrior melee and rogue melee do NOT have the same role on a battlefield. I can go into details, but i rather not tell guardians on my server how to not suck balls. Warriors, regardless of soul choice, are ALWAYS the front people. Rogues should NEVER run passed the warriors of their team (this is called overextending), unless a single target is exposed. That's all im going to tell you.

    Some of your comments:
    A melee dps should not be able to beat a warrior of any kind in a toe to toe battle! Correct.
    Just because of the warriors armor and health. Wrong.
    A mage that catches a rogue at range should toast him! Wrong. Rangers and marksmen should lose by default? And anti-CC or CC-immunity? Damage reduction? Gap closers? no? ok...
    A rogue that catches that same mage by surprise should waste him! No. Every class needs to stand a chance against another. Go play Rock Paper Scissors if you disagree.

    Here is your logic:
    Warriors > rogues
    Mages > rogues (ranged)
    Rogues > mages (melee)
    i wonder hwere you stand on:
    mage vs warrior
    cleric vs rogue
    cleric vs mage
    cleric vs warrior

    Please do comment and lets see if your can make it work.
    For starters, I don't really care for the Rock, Paper, Scissors argument.

    Assassins should be Tier 1 DPS, they need to be buffed to Champ, Paragon and BM levels of DPS, period.



    Quote Originally Posted by Celestian View Post
    I'm guessing from your statement you have NEVER played an assassin in PVP.

    1) Stun is our WORST opener. You lose a ton of DPS by trying to keep them "locked down" when you're better off opening with our dot followed by our snare.
    2) Stun again is useless against mages with their circle of awesome.
    3) Cleric? Are you serious? RECOMMENDED? Wow they don't even have to pay attention to us, bubble, hot and all damage we do is ignored, completely.

    The ONLY people we stand a chance against is another rogue assuming they have no one even bothering to toss a HOT on them. We might be able to burst down someone at 1/2 health but depending on class that's going to be up in the air as well.

    New rules are assassin is the lowest melee dps spec'd with worst armor and 0 break/resist and/or survivability in their tree. Yeah, that's a great "rule".

    I enjoy playing my assassin but it's no where near any other rogue spec for viability in PVP (and probably PVE). You guys that keep trying to convince us otherwise need to play the class and learn how the class really is.

    Hell, did you see the change to mages coming in alpha, the one where they don't even need LOS on you when the spell goes off? LOL. Now they can just fireball me when I'm out of LOS... I really wanna know when I'm going to get to backstab them in the face.
    This post I 110% support and am QFT.



    Quote Originally Posted by drakhon View Post
    And previously you stated that
    Rogue vs Warrior = Warrior wins

    Who exactly is supposed to kill Warriors, just other Warriors?
    Warrior vs Warrior = Warrior wins, working as intended.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ekryth View Post
    Wait, wait. Who are you attacking with your jagged strike opener? Assassins aren't meant to take dmg, using your stuns mean you don't take dmg. Lol at people on the forums trying to claim superiority.
    Lol at the people who open with stuns......read above on how to open more succesfully.



    Quote Originally Posted by May Contain Nuts View Post
    I hate to say this but as my Sin I can kill anyone in world pvp well I tend to avoid trying to kill tanks (well duh).

    and in Wfs I can kill fang holders/people trying to get objs in codex ofc 1 on 1.

    Dont have OMG wtf gear just normal pvp 1- 3 gear hell I even got blue daggers.

    Dont get me wrong a buff wuld be nice but i'd be happy with a warrior nerf and leave it at that.


    "Sin have the least defence" well first we have slip away saved me countless times, then we have 5 secs of spell immune see pvp tree. oh? and stealth? cant gank what they cant see.

    okay now give me a rogue class what dosnt get ganked or has more escape/def abiltys say riftstalker sure gl killing anyone.
    Sure, a Sin is a awesome ganking class, then what?



    Quote Originally Posted by Savvage View Post
    I can understand pvper's being upset, but I would like complain on behalf of us pver's, its a sad day when the class that is suppose to have the highest single target dps in the game, is only welcome in a raid as a support healer or a buffadin (bard).
    Yep, agree 110%.

    Asassins should be Tier 1 DPS.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jeebster View Post
    I find my efforts are best spent stealing points in codex. Half the time I can do it right in front of the enemy if I stealth up and they are focused on my team.

    when I'm defending I stay stealthed and look for people off to the side or if I see someone burst down a cleric to half, I jump in and stun lock them for a few seconds and often that's enough to give teamates they chance to get them down the other half.

    Yes, Jagged strike does more dmg. But the confusion and delays caused by my short stun lock are often enough to let my team finish the job, or to delay heals people they're fighting are getting.

    I don't even look at my dmg done any more. I have fun stealthing in, sowing some confusion or a short burst to kill someone already wounded then get the hell out so I can stealth and repeat.


    If Iget caught in the open or surrounded, I understandably get messed up.
    When you start fighting decently geared and skilled people, trying to stun lock people off the bat doesn't work, especially if they are PvP spec'd.



    In all honesty, Assassins should be tier 1 DPS and not be overpowered by Warriors in this department so ethier up Assassins DPS OR lower Warriors melee DPS.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrolytic View Post
    So you can sit in stealth next to that rock, because when you come out, even my bard will laugh at your DPS as even he heals through it....

    You have slip away on a 2 min cool down that is effective in PvE assuming you don't have a dot on you. It also resets the encounter.

    Slip away in PvP (WF/open) is alright IF you don't get dott'ed, otherwise, whats the point? prolonging death? or on occasion you can escape and effectively achieve nothing.. grats

    Cleanse Soul, Slip away if you have dots on you works 90% of the time only melee dots wont be removed. If bleeding Hidden veil befoe you slipway to get away18 secs to find a safe area to drink/re stealth.

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