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Thread: Are you happy with Bard?

  1. #1
    Rift Master Marcato's Avatar
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    Default Are you happy with Bard?

    Mechanically and conceptually I mean. Do you like the abilities, the play style, the role in groups?

    I've always been a fan of bards myself and played them in several games - it's a big reason I made the switch from WoW to Rift; to play a favorite class. I'm close to 50 on my bard now though and I'm finding something is just lackluster with the play style.

    I'm used to bards that are equal parts sword and song; flashy combat, buffing, batteries. In Rift, however, the way the class works really doesn't change much at all from level 8 to level 50. The only real difference as you level is that you add a buff into the rotation, which by 28 you have all 5. Verses and Virtuoso are the only things that provide a brief reprieve from the routine.

    The problem, imo, is Cadence. I think it's a shame that this one ability pretty much defines, and dominates, the Bard soul. When you're not buffing you have to essentially Cadence spam the rest of the time. The bard soul certainly doesn't offer good alternatives for building combo points and not having the healing - even if it's not entirely necessary - would be a hard case to make to groups, especially since cadence is a delivery system for greater essences. Blade Dancer, thematically, would be a great secondary for what I want to do but it's hard to get away from Cadence and it's hard to argue with what's simply so effective.

    Summary: Too much heal, not enough buff and damage. That's my opinion anyway and I'm interested in seeing what others think about the class. It's still the only soul I want to play as.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcato View Post
    Mechanically and conceptually I mean. Do you like the abilities, the play style, the role in groups?

    I've always been a fan of bards myself and played them in several games - it's a big reason I made the switch from WoW to Rift; to play a favorite class. I'm close to 50 on my bard now though and I'm finding something is just lackluster with the play style.

    I'm used to bards that are equal parts sword and song; flashy combat, buffing, batteries. In Rift, however, the way the class works really doesn't change much at all from level 8 to level 50. The only real difference as you level is that you add a buff into the rotation, which by 28 you have all 5. Verses and Virtuoso are the only things that provide a brief reprieve from the routine.

    The problem, imo, is Cadence. I think it's a shame that this one ability pretty much defines, and dominates, the Bard soul. When you're not buffing you have to essentially Cadence spam the rest of the time. The bard soul certainly doesn't offer good alternatives for building combo points and not having the healing - even if it's not entirely necessary - would be a hard case to make to groups, especially since cadence is a delivery system for greater essences. Blade Dancer, thematically, would be a great secondary for what I want to do but it's hard to get away from Cadence and it's hard to argue with what's simply so effective.

    Summary: Too much heal, not enough buff and damage. That's my opinion anyway and I'm interested in seeing what others think about the class. It's still the only soul I want to play as.
    I've said this myself. That there is to much dependence on cadence for this soul, and I love playing bard. The soul needs to step away from having healing be its main aspect.

    I think of a few past bards in the genre...which were infinitely more fun...also infinitely better.

    Vanguard - Bard
    Dark Age of Camelot - Bard
    Everquest - Bard

    All 3 of those games, had much better bards. They actually more closely resembled a "jack of all trades."

    Sometimes I feel the Rift bard is just a Warden in different armor, and a different spell-consumption.


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  3. #3
    Telaran tehmickey's Avatar
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    i enjoy bard and end up using it in experts more often than my native sab spec. the main thing i wish i could change here the motifs. imo there are too many to keep up for their duration of 30s, it makes me feel like it's a hassle to keep them up and anytime i switch gears to do something special (virtuoso spam for example) i find myself forgetting them and feeling like a bad.

    i would propose to one of to changes:

    have talents high up to increase the durations to a minute

    or preferably: i would like a 2nd version of cadence to use at high levels. this new cadence would last slightly longer (5 combo points worth imo), more damage, no healing component, and refresh all motifs upon completion. this wouldn't replace cadence, a cooldown might be in order, but every so often it could be worked into the rotation for a small dps increase at the expense of invigorating soul heals but overall remove the tedium of motif refreshing.
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  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    I love my Bard so much that I run it at 51 points just to give my group the bonus. What I don't care for is the 5 button smash every 30 sec. I would rather see a high point option to increase the duration to at least 1 min.

  5. #5
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    I've said this myself. That there is to much dependence on cadence for this soul, and I love playing bard. The soul needs to step away from having healing be its main aspect.

    I think of a few past bards in the genre...which were infinitely more fun...also infinitely better.

    Vanguard - Bard
    Dark Age of Camelot - Bard
    Everquest - Bard

    All 3 of those games, had much better bards. They actually more closely resembled a "jack of all trades."

    Sometimes I feel the Rift bard is just a Warden in different armor, and a different spell-consumption.
    I played a bard in Everquest from 99 to 06, the bard class in Rift is nowhere near as versatile or useful but I play one anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by June View Post
    Many have quitted, they are lost almost half of the servers they started. I hop in next MMO for sure. Rift is awesome game but PVP is just crap.
    Lol really now?

  6. #6
    Eep
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    I enjoy it but would prefer 30% higher dmg from cadence but with the current healing level staying the same and a 20% increase on CoR so its not a big heal but all the combined heals add up. Atm a non crit is a bit of a joke. Maybe if there was more slow ticking Ae in the game i wouldnt feel its so useless :P

    Motifs are fine imo but many people obviously disagree. I just bound them to easy keys and its kinda done in auto pilot now so not an issue.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Deityness's Avatar
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    I would love to see bard doing less cadence and more riffing and buffing the group.

    Now the rotation for me is:
    5x motifs
    cadence + power chord -> 1 of the debuffs
    riff -> other debuff
    cadence + power chord -> coda of X
    cadence + power chord -> coda of x
    5 x motifs

    rince and repeat

    Gets a bit boring in the long run...

    e. I dislike a little the range of cadence atm. Atleast WF I almost have to be in the front line to be able to do some raid healing, which usually leads to that I am brought down pretty quickly.
    Last edited by Deityness; 03-24-2011 at 02:21 AM.
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  8. #8
    Telaran Waananii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehmickey View Post
    i enjoy bard and end up using it in experts more often than my native sab spec. the main thing i wish i could change here the motifs. imo there are too many to keep up for their duration of 30s, it makes me feel like it's a hassle to keep them up and anytime i switch gears to do something special (virtuoso spam for example) i find myself forgetting them and feeling like a bad.

    i would propose to one of to changes:

    have talents high up to increase the durations to a minute

    or preferably: i would like a 2nd version of cadence to use at high levels. this new cadence would last slightly longer (5 combo points worth imo), more damage, no healing component, and refresh all motifs upon completion. this wouldn't replace cadence, a cooldown might be in order, but every so often it could be worked into the rotation for a small dps increase at the expense of invigorating soul heals but overall remove the tedium of motif refreshing.
    Would be great! I was excited about getting to play Bard as it the way it works is extremely interesting to me, but just isn't as great as expected, hopefully some imporvements and changes come, especially towards the fact that we're just off-healers and not a jack of all trades like we should be. Just my two cents.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Bard also needs a ghetto out of combat rez at about 32 points to at least rez a real rezzer like a warrior, mage or cleric.... Oh? I hear you say. The other 3 classes can already rez?? Why not the bard/rogue soul?

    infact if you go 51 points in bard you should have a in combat rez like the chloro, as you are dps crippled and a pure support class without the ability of a 50/50 mixed mage... it makes no sense..
    Last edited by Efour; 03-24-2011 at 02:51 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcato View Post
    Mechanically and conceptually I mean. Do you like the abilities, the play style, the role in groups?

    I've always been a fan of bards myself and played them in several games - it's a big reason I made the switch from WoW to Rift; to play a favorite class. I'm close to 50 on my bard now though and I'm finding something is just lackluster with the play style.

    I'm used to bards that are equal parts sword and song; flashy combat, buffing, batteries. In Rift, however, the way the class works really doesn't change much at all from level 8 to level 50. The only real difference as you level is that you add a buff into the rotation, which by 28 you have all 5. Verses and Virtuoso are the only things that provide a brief reprieve from the routine.

    The problem, imo, is Cadence. I think it's a shame that this one ability pretty much defines, and dominates, the Bard soul. When you're not buffing you have to essentially Cadence spam the rest of the time. The bard soul certainly doesn't offer good alternatives for building combo points and not having the healing - even if it's not entirely necessary - would be a hard case to make to groups, especially since cadence is a delivery system for greater essences. Blade Dancer, thematically, would be a great secondary for what I want to do but it's hard to get away from Cadence and it's hard to argue with what's simply so effective.

    Summary: Too much heal, not enough buff and damage. That's my opinion anyway and I'm interested in seeing what others think about the class. It's still the only soul I want to play as.
    yea with the upcoming nerfs to bard healing, what was once the mainstay of a bards job has now become useless. there is no point to this thread or any other about bard play since bards will very soon be a completely broken class that wont be needed in any form for anything in this game, whether its rift raiding, endgame pve content, or pvp. they reduced what was once an excellent raid wide support healer to nothingness. i cry for the rogue players now that sabo and bard are gonna be nearly unviable in pve and pvp. if you think anyones gonna take 2 bards in a raid now your just dilusional, people will take 1 archon and like 2 clerics instead. gg trion make rogue even more worthless then it is now.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    atm I'm doing every fight (boss, trash, etc.) more or less exactly the same, pressing the buffs, and healing my group passivly. I think there are to less Extra Buttons like Cooldown, Stances, or something like that, to make it more fun. And that the group can recognize: the bard did something which turned the fight to win it.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker am0nr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deityness View Post
    I would love to see bard doing less cadence and more riffing and buffing the group.

    Now the rotation for me is:
    5x motifs
    cadence + power chord -> 1 of the debuffs
    riff -> other debuff
    cadence + power chord -> coda of X
    cadence + power chord -> coda of x
    5 x motifs

    rince and repeat

    Gets a bit boring in the long run...

    e. I dislike a little the range of cadence atm. Atleast WF I almost have to be in the front line to be able to do some raid healing, which usually leads to that I am brought down pretty quickly.
    I've run the numbers and Power Chord is sub-optimal (you may not care, which is fine, merely pointing it out if you want to know.) The better choice is a 3-pt Cadence followed by 2-pt Cadence (for both DPS and HPS).
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  13. #13
    Telaran
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    The current Motif mechanic basically prevents me from playing the Bard at this point. It's just tedious. Maintaining very short duration buffs only worked for the Bard in EQ because there was a small level of skill involved in twisting your songs and that was the core mechanic of the class; songs were everything, including damage.

    Refreshing 5 buffs every 30 seconds just for the sake of buffing is just.. extremely tedious and not fun.

    I'm actually very surprised this hasn't been officially addressed yet as it's been one of the biggest issues of the soul since they changed how macros work (and even before, it wasn't ideal).

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
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    The bard has mediocre healing that used to be offset by the fact that it affected many players. The soul has mediocre damage abilities that are an afterthought for the majority that use it. The buffs are also mediocre ... 5% here and there and 30s max is hardly significant. The CC is also mediocre as mez is by far the most “easily screwed up by others” CC in the game.

    The build is basically master of none, mediocre at all.

    My suggestions:
    1) Motifs need to add a combo point.
    2) Bard needs a high level rez (either 44 of 51 in the tree).
    3) Bard needs the ability to cleanse negative effects.
    4) Bard needs a 5/10 man absorb buff along the lines of Rift Guard from Riftstalker or even a damage reflect shield.
    5) Bard doesn’t need 5/7% damage buffs to enemies, I suggest replacing such things with 3 and 4 above.
    6) Bard doesn’t need a freaking critter magnet, I suggest removing it to make room for 2.
    7) Cadence shouldn’t be able to miss.
    8) Power Chord should be added to Invigorated Soul
    9) All Damage should be removed from Riff so it doesn’t break Mez, the form of CC we were given.
    10) Triumphant Soul should boost the heal effect of Invigorated Soul
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  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    I was happy with bard. I do great in Warfronts but suck 1V1 so I figured it was a tradeoff but I was comfortable with it. Now I will be half as effective in Warfronts and STILL suck 1V1 so as of tonight I plan to reroll because when this patch goes live I wont enjoy being a bard anymore and they clearly dont plan to give Bard any 1V1 survivability

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