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Thread: I don't understand what Sabs are supposed to be now ...

  1. #1
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    Question I don't understand what Sabs are supposed to be now ...

    Trion, you hit Sabs from 4 different directions and left a soul without any practical use.

    First, you fixed a bug with mitigaiton bypass. Second, you changed the way charges detonated so that each charges damage roll was checked individually for defense and crit. Third, you gutted the range of the class. Lastly, you changed charge booster which was the most critical tactic of the whole soul tree.

    Ok, so net effect here ... You have a class that now has to pratically be in melee range with no survivability tactics in the tree and has a 6 second backload on any damage output baring CC interruption. Don't you see the issue with that?

    With the armor mitigation fix and the change to charge detonation, WHAT MADE YOU THINK ANY MORE NERFS WERE NEEDED?

    It's like you had a few different Devs think up ways to bring the class in line and decided to implement all of them without consideration of the cummulative effect of the changes you were adding.


    I am sort of running out of specs that interest me. The nerfs done to Marksman in beta overally killed that soul and now the same thing has been done to Sab.
    Last edited by Taldren; 03-23-2011 at 08:22 PM.
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  2. #2
    Telaran tehmickey's Avatar
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    they missed the mark entirely by not addressing the problem of how assassin talents affected sab. 51 point sab was never an issue that got people too upset. the issue came from stacking assassin/NB talents on top of a mostly sab build for extremely high damage output (you could easily dark malady / detonate to 1shot or nearly 1shot people in pvp and pve). those problems are still there.

    some changes were made that needed to be made like the seperate crit rolls on stacked charges and charge booster was a strange talent that i've never liked. charge booster as it is now live makes it where nobody would ever use a 5point splinter charge for example to get the proper debuff. 1 of each ALWAYS except for spike charge dps and stacked blasts for pvp gibbing. the range i dont have a problem with either as i dont think we were ever meant to be a full ranged class but more of a mid-range. ranger/mm should be fulll range. ever try to run from a sab who has charges on you? range was a lot and made that difficult.

    the changes proposed however dont fix the issue. what this will do is lower all sab dps in such a way that now the old op sin/nb talents will still be required but now they will simply put that dps in the same place as the old 51 point sab dps and the new 51 sabs will be doing too little damage to be useful to groups anymore.

    i dont disagree with the changes that were made, i actually think they were appropriate IF the sin/nb talents were taken into account so that they wouldn't function on sab abilties the same way. if that was done then normal sab abilities could actually have recieved a minor buff in damage so that 51 sab was viable for things and not able to be buffed to the point of being OP with the support of other trees.

    fail
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  3. #3
    Plane Walker Anesthetics's Avatar
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    Nothing, you aren't sposed to play them anymore.
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  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Saboteurs are supposed to be free favor in PvP like the remainder of the rogue souls. The spec was clearly out of line with the other souls, by being almost viable. (yes, sarcasm may occur).
    Last edited by Xandax; 03-23-2011 at 10:31 PM.

  5. #5
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    I can't say that I agree on the range thing, going Sab means loosing a fair bit of real CC, the soul is all pre-active ability in situations that a lot of times require better reactive. It's all great and good if you've got someone baby sitting the Sab, but we're a rogue and support is more often given the 'warriors' and 'casters'.

    W/o the range, we need some other/better options for rea-active defense...there stilll remain far to much cc/abilities against the sab considering the design and the way the soul functions (consider, almost all of our primary methodology for attack involves a 2+ second effective 'cast' time).

  6. #6
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    It's not even a nerf, jesus. ****. Charge booster was modified to be the way it should be, provides a significant BURST every couple mins, not create a significant increase to overall dps. Sab was meant to be pure burst, all they did was remove that and create the ability to be significant burst.

    Second, the armor bug was fixed because it was a BUG. A GLITCH. All they did was reduce it back down to where it was supposed to be...jesus. So you don't have your secret +80% armor mitigation, it's only 50 now....qq moar.

    Finally, lets be honest. A sab having 30m range was ridiculous. It's perfectly sensible to reduce the range to 20m. That was the only nerf anyway.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Anesthetics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selix View Post
    It's not even a nerf, jesus. ****. Charge booster was modified to be the way it should be, provides a significant BURST every couple mins, not create a significant increase to overall dps. Sab was meant to be pure burst, all they did was remove that and create the ability to be significant burst.

    Second, the armor bug was fixed because it was a BUG. A GLITCH. All they did was reduce it back down to where it was supposed to be...jesus. So you don't have your secret +80% armor mitigation, it's only 50 now....qq moar.

    Finally, lets be honest. A sab having 30m range was ridiculous. It's perfectly sensible to reduce the range to 20m. That was the only nerf anyway.
    With cutting the burst, they cut their DPS by more then half. Its a useless spec in any raid instance, or any instance for that matter. And trying it on Alpha in duels, I can't even dent people with my 2400 5charge crit.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selix View Post
    It's not even a nerf, jesus. ****. Charge booster was modified to be the way it should be, provides a significant BURST every couple mins, not create a significant increase to overall dps. Sab was meant to be pure burst, all they did was remove that and create the ability to be significant burst.

    Second, the armor bug was fixed because it was a BUG. A GLITCH. All they did was reduce it back down to where it was supposed to be...jesus. So you don't have your secret +80% armor mitigation, it's only 50 now....qq moar.

    Finally, lets be honest. A sab having 30m range was ridiculous. It's perfectly sensible to reduce the range to 20m. That was the only nerf anyway.
    You're facing MM's with 35 meters range & speed, Rangers with 30 meters range and pets. A majority of spells are 30 meters.
    It takes 2 seconds to get off a single charge and detonate, it takes more than a single full set of charges, Landmines and booby trap to take out a 'real' ranger or other classes 'pet', much less the player.
    Sab's need (particularly non-sin sab's) every bit of the range they had. The other changes need to be and should be tested for impact before implementing the the range 'nerf'.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    I never viewed the sab soul in the same light as other rogue souls. Their initial "damage" is frontloaded burst and if the target lived through it, the sab would have to figure out if he could finish the kill or move on. This is the typical rogue class I always believed in. If the sab was a melee toon, I would believe it to be an "assassin." If with a bow or gun, I would believe it to be a "marksman" or "ranger."

    Welcome back to the rift version of the rogue, having to assist warriors for kills with tickling damage! Welcome back to being... one of us... one of us...

    In all seriousness, I think it'll be a few months till the game is acceptably balanced. Till then, it'll be a rocky rollercoaster ride. You can either jump ship, or grab on tight and wait and hope for it to smooth out. You can't really expect perfection after only a few weeks of initial market release, especially when there are still so many bugs that need to be worked out first.
    Last edited by TridaggerX; 03-23-2011 at 11:31 PM.

  10. #10
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    I'd be lying if I said I wasn't enjoying these Sab tears a little bit.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by halorin View Post
    I'd be lying if I said I wasn't enjoying these Sab tears a little bit.
    All that will happen is all these sabs will reroll whatever the next flavor is, while keeping the rogue 50 for in 3-4 months when it's back on top.

    It's wow all over again, prepare to meet the mages and the champs, and in 2 months clerics, and 4 months rogues again.

    We're back in azeroth

  12. #12
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    Im trying to figure out how this in any way is not a substantial nerf...I took on this role knowing i was a glass cannon so kill me quick or i will blow you up...now you can still kill me quick and i cant do hardly anything to you...range is not the issue, its all the other abilities that they are nerfing that are gonna make us useless in pve groups, and they are only doing it because ppl are whining in PvP forums about it...WoW 2 coming next patch....

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Deityness's Avatar
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    The range nerf was imo quite uncalled for... also the charge booster for becoming active talent rather than being a passive, I kinda dislike that change too. Otherwise can't say about the dmg because I am not that intrested in parsing any damage.

    time to gather some Tanking leather ready for the patch.
    Last edited by Deityness; 03-23-2011 at 11:55 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehmickey View Post
    they missed the mark entirely by not addressing the problem of how assassin talents affected sab. 51 point sab was never an issue that got people too upset. the issue came from stacking assassin/NB talents on top of a mostly sab build for extremely high damage output (you could easily dark malady / detonate to 1shot or nearly 1shot people in pvp and pve). those problems are still there.
    The assassin/nb pairing wasn't a real issue because all the QQ was based off of bugged damage. Improved Blast Charge was bypassing far more mitigation then it was supposed to be.

    The change to how each and every charge is going to be checked individually for defense and crit is also a huge change that will greatly impact the damage the class puts out.

    Those two things combined will already have a huge net effect on the damage output which I agree were needed. In fact I have been saying those two exact changes needed to be made for a while now.

    The rest of the changes made seem to be more for spite than anything else. The range change is completely uncalled for based on the delayed damage and lack of CC/defense in the tree to survive at those closer ranges. Hell, with 10 points in talents we reach BARD/NIGHTBLADE range FFS.

    The change to charge booster on top of the other two damage hits was just the icing on the cake.
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  15. #15
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    The range change was uncalled for and unnecessary. Hell SABs are outranged by tanks now!

    Charge booster - i don't like it. Should stay as a passive adding +1 to the highest number of charges on taget (eg 3 shrap, 1 blast 1 ember adds 1 to shrap)

    Thankfully what reads as a shrapnel nerf isn't, just a badly worded fix to a bug that caused shrap not to affect other targets if detonate killed the main target)

    Armour pen fix - fair enough provided its across the board.

    How do we act collectively as a community to cause a rethink on the range change?

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