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Thread: RS tanking T1+

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    3

    Default RS tanking T1+

    I currently play 50 rogue. I have bard build, assassin build, RS (tank) build, and lastly a Sab build. I have purchased every t1 plaque item available. Crafted dagger and bow epic, well you get the idea.

    I am currently concerned about our role as a tank. I have scouted these forums many time and saw all the posts about RS tanks, even ran 3 diff specs at one time. I did the assassin healing hybrid, the classic 7/51/8 brd/rs/BD, and any other combination that was posted or thought up.

    I am running the Rng/brd/rs build atm, keep in mind to me it is the highest raw mitigation we have, but im sure it is debatable. I know it isnt far from what would be thought up as such. I really am not here to focus on that.

    I would truely like to discuss some of the issues i personally found with RS tanking.

    My disclaimer, I HAVE tanked all but FC t1 successfully as RS tank, im not here to debate if it is possible.
    Im concerned with how we rate versus the warrior tank.

    Point for point warriors tanks seem to be superior in every aspect.

    My largest concern atm, is our aoe threat generating ability. I am fully plaqued out tanking gear, 9.5k health with 110 toughness. We have two aoe threat abilities, one is on a 30 sec CD and other is 8 seconds. Multiple wipes occur from my healer pulling aggro off a trash pull. Yes, i pop my reduction CD b4 pull. Yes i lead with my aoe abilties. still, my healer pulls. I am well aware that if guardian steel buff is not up we lose 40% threat, but thats something we have to deal with, do warriors? What about the pull where not all the mbos are in a nice little pile for you? you lead with your aoe and dont hit one, it kills your healer. Yes you can taunt it, ive done that, you die shortly after from not building your combo points and poping finishers to become an actually tank and not a squishy. Or you lose threat on the ones that you are near, or you taunt swap back in split second cause your that good only to lose aggro on the target you just taunted right b4 your CD for RD is up.

    I could go on, but not needed. The simple truth is, Yes you can tank t1 and prolly even t2. But you walk a fine line between hold that aoe threat and losing it. And there is simpley nothing you can do to stop it when your CD timer ticks away slower than your healers life.

    I have seen first hand a warrior tank barely geared for t1 walk right in and if he has half a brain tank it wipe free. pulling upwards of 500-800 DPS on aoe pulls while doing about 600 HPS. were lucky to break 120 dps on same aoe pull with 0 HPS.

    Warriors have ranged threat gen abilties, and far superior threat for aoe. Save the Single Target boss fight, why would you ever use a RS tank over a warrior?

    I truely wanted to play a rogue tank, but more and more i run into the hard truth that a rogue tank in expert dungeons is lacking compare to the warrior.

    If I am missing something please inform me, if you choose to call me stupid and i dont know blah blah blah, save your typing. I dont know everything which is why im posting. But I do know enough to realize there isnt much i can do to adjust my aoe threat without lose massive mitigation which would result in me once again being inferior to the warrior.

    I have yet to see this balancing issue show up as a concern for the developers, only our impending nerf to sab.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    159

    Default

    First, I'm not trying to discount anything you said.

    Second, here's some of my advice that'll help for the current state of the game:

    Dont lead with both AoE's.
    Make sure to have GS up before any distortions. the 20% threat really makes a difference with distortion.

    I'm not saying there arent AoE threat issues. But T1's should be fine, unless your dps are outgearing you by a margin. You should be able to hold 3-4 targets with all current tricks. Planar switching will be needed for 4 targets. Any more than 4 requires marking or a sab's incriminate. For large aoe pulls, I use sidestep+strikeback for aoe threat.

    I run the 8bld/51rift/7rng build for my T2 group, but I also have a sab for incriminates. If I'm not paying attention the BM warrior will pull a single target off me (in aoe pulls, never 1v1), but that's usually always my fault.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    338

    Default

    Sorry to say but this is L2P issue only time i had healer pull of me is when i am dead tired and just slow reacting. Dps does pull on 3-4 mobs if they dont assist well warriors do. But frankly their is their fault. Aoe pulls no idea what you talking about i had no issues even with no GS up.

    Look not being best aoe tanks is OK. Would be nice to see it fixed? Sure. However it is duable, might need a bit more work then wars but that is hardly an issue. In raids you have multiple tanks, if RS cant tank aoe as well as wars/cleric well they will be tanking simple targets. This is hardly the end of the world. So far i have zero issues in t1, and no issue in RD the only t2 i tanked.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3

    Default

    I get what your saying, and yes, t1 isnt an issue as i stated. Thanks for the advice on having GS up b4 both of my aoes. Ill give that a shot. as to second reply, no its not a L2P issue, as i stated in disclaimer i have tanked all t1 except FC. Is it doable, yes, is t2 doable? yes. Your missing the boat man. Maybe its my fault for assuming people could actually understand my point and discuss it while resisting the urge to say "im better than you"

    Simple fact, simple point, a warrior can tank better than you. We have to be near flawless to pull off the simplest tanking assignment, whereas a warrior can be near ******ed and do better.

  5. #5
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Using this guide as a guideline:
    http://www.riftjunkies.com/forums/sh...eons-and-Raids

    In this guide it will go on to explain rotations. It's very simple and I'm sure you've stumbled across this already.
    Rotation at the beginning of a pull:
    Shadow Blitz
    Planar Switch
    Guarded Steel
    Rift Disturbance (if there are multiple targets)
    Phantom Blowx3
    Planar Strikex2
    Rift Guard

    That is pretty standard for rogue tanks. However, I never lose aggro to any mob regardless of how many I pull. I am currently in half T1 tanking gear and the other half DPS gear. Still working on my tank set hence the 1/2 and 1/2. What I do to never lose aggro simply goes something like this:
    I will be using a 3 mob pull as an example.

    Mob 1 > Shadow Blitz > Planar Switch > Guarded Steel > Rift Disturbance > Phantom Blow x1 > Target Mob 2 > Phantom Blow x2 > Rift Guard > Rift Disturbance > Target Mob 3 > Phantom Blow x2 > Planar Switch > Guarded Steel > Target Mob 1 > Phantom Blow x2 > Rift Disturbance > etc...

    I know a lot of people that don't do this simply due to DPS having a hard time with Target of Target. Simply mark your first mob. You can even do that while running so it doesn't even cut into downtime. Constantly switching mobs and using Phantom Blow allows me to build up more than enough aggro on every mob. Once I have became used to this, I don't lose aggro. Remember, if one gets away from you however, use Rift Prison and/or Instigate. I personally like Prison because it allows me to finish what I was doing on the current mob before having to worry about picking him back up.

    Other than this, just remember to keep up your buffs and you should never die. Unless your healer is made of fail. Best of luck to you.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3

    Default

    thanks for the reference hazy, ya ive read it. It might possibily be that my healer is warden and pre hotting me? IDK. Ive seen same clr heal a warrior for many runs and never have an issue, first time i tank for him bam aggro. Im just trying to get to the bottom of the issue. Even if it is an issue with hot healing or whatever, seems warriors have a large advantage of threat over us.

  7. #7
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    54

    Default

    I don't know what to tell you. Cleric pre hots shouldn't be a problem to be honest. At least I have never had a problem. Are you waiting until all mobs are in range of Rift Distrubance? Maybe try Memory pulling?

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