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Thread: 51 pt Ranger build questions

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default 51 pt Ranger build questions

    I've been sifting through the huge number of posts on the topic of rogue ranged dps. I know that at the moment sabs reign supreme for ranged dps, but I'm not interested in that style of gameplay, and the ranger appeals to me much more. The purpose of this post is to seek some clarification on shot rotations to optimize PvE dps in expert dungeons then eventually a raid environment.

    I've seen many, many threads which conflict on the best PvE ranger spec. Many say 51 pts is required to keep pet up in higher end game content while others say the you give up to much dps from the other souls by throwing 51 in ranger.

    I'm inclined to believe that to make the best ranger spec possible for endgame PvE you need the 51 pts. I've tried specs such as 31 RG/ 18 MM/ 17 Sin and the pet dies in almost every expert boss fight and even a lot of trash pulls. With 51 pts not only is he almost invincible to AoE but he does ~200 dps by himself.

    So I've basically settled into the 51 RG/ 15 NB/ 0 Sin build.

    My next barrier is shot rotations and the debate between Shadowfire and Splinter Shot. Has anyone done any testing to determine whether or not keeping one or both of these up is a dps increase or decrease?

    I read in a few other threads that shots with cast times (splinter, shadowfire, dead eye shot, etc) were a net loss in dps due to the auto-attacks not firing during the cast bar. These threads said that a simple instant spam (quick, headshot) would provide higher dps.

    Could anyone offer their suggestions/clarifications? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Ranger is garbage for anything other then soloing. If you want to do end game stuff your best best is to sab.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Elewyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavarir View Post
    I've been sifting through the huge number of posts on the topic of rogue ranged dps. I know that at the moment sabs reign supreme for ranged dps, but I'm not interested in that style of gameplay, and the ranger appeals to me much more. The purpose of this post is to seek some clarification on shot rotations to optimize PvE dps in expert dungeons then eventually a raid environment.

    I've seen many, many threads which conflict on the best PvE ranger spec. Many say 51 pts is required to keep pet up in higher end game content while others say the you give up to much dps from the other souls by throwing 51 in ranger.

    I'm inclined to believe that to make the best ranger spec possible for endgame PvE you need the 51 pts. I've tried specs such as 31 RG/ 18 MM/ 17 Sin and the pet dies in almost every expert boss fight and even a lot of trash pulls. With 51 pts not only is he almost invincible to AoE but he does ~200 dps by himself.

    So I've basically settled into the 51 RG/ 15 NB/ 0 Sin build.

    My next barrier is shot rotations and the debate between Shadowfire and Splinter Shot. Has anyone done any testing to determine whether or not keeping one or both of these up is a dps increase or decrease?

    I read in a few other threads that shots with cast times (splinter, shadowfire, dead eye shot, etc) were a net loss in dps due to the auto-attacks not firing during the cast bar. These threads said that a simple instant spam (quick, headshot) would provide higher dps.

    Could anyone offer their suggestions/clarifications? Thanks in advance.
    Most players do not even slot shadowfire, the slow cast time and pitiful dmg outweighs landing in a few more instant shots than the benefit you gain from the 20% increased attk speed.

    splintering shouild be kept up as much as possible, but remember your pet gets the bleed increase dmg buff for longer than it stays on the target so aslong as your pet has the buff its ok to use something else like armor debuff then cast it again.
    mostly they are right however, Ranger lacks any real punch in endgame pve! our 2 finishers are subpar to the Marks ones... and it might be worth plonking a few pts into Marks to get those instead if you really want 51pts Ranger to work. always use raptor ofc! its the only pet that does much, the wolf 5% miss chance howl isnt really worth losing that much dps over.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Oh, yeah, how dare we cite to something that is more accurate than Britannica.
    "Seebs, on Wikipedia's Accuracy"

  4. #4
    Soulwalker Teknotaz's Avatar
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    i going to have a 51/15/0 ranger/MM/RS spec. i am lvl 33 and i have had no problems with the spec. my dps is just about equal in PVE and im usually 3rd or 4th in PVP depending on when I got in.
    [/SIGPIC]I am GOD! You my not like, BUT HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT!!!!!

  5. #5
    Telaran BurntSushi's Avatar
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    Here are two builds that I use for Ranged DPS:

    For AOE DPS and a good solo build:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...bu0kszVz.V0x0h

    For Single Target DPS Dungeon Bosses with no adds:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...toqzchzo.V0x0h

    These two builds are the highest DPS that I can squeeze out of the Ranged DPS roles at the moment.
    I highly suggest trying them out and let me know what you think.

  6. #6
    Telaran BurntSushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elewyth View Post
    Most players do not even slot shadowfire, the slow cast time and pitiful dmg outweighs landing in a few more instant shots than the benefit you gain from the 20% increased attk speed.

    splintering shouild be kept up as much as possible, but remember your pet gets the bleed increase dmg buff for longer than it stays on the target so aslong as your pet has the buff its ok to use something else like armor debuff then cast it again.
    mostly they are right however, Ranger lacks any real punch in endgame pve! our 2 finishers are subpar to the Marks ones... and it might be worth plonking a few pts into Marks to get those instead if you really want 51pts Ranger to work. always use raptor ofc! its the only pet that does much, the wolf 5% miss chance howl isnt really worth losing that much dps over.
    I use shadowfire. My shot rotation will go, Splinter Shot/Piercing Armor/Shadowfire then Headshot. With the Armor debuff most times I crit about 950-1100 with shadowfire followed by a 1100-1450 crit with Headshot. I have a very crit heavy build at the moment along with the damage boosts from NB and Sin.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Elewyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurntSushi View Post
    I use shadowfire. My shot rotation will go, Splinter Shot/Piercing Armor/Shadowfire then Headshot. With the Armor debuff most times I crit about 950-1100 with shadowfire followed by a 1100-1450 crit with Headshot. I have a very crit heavy build at the moment along with the damage boosts from NB and Sin.
    could be my crit is very low, shadow for me hits quite low...
    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Oh, yeah, how dare we cite to something that is more accurate than Britannica.
    "Seebs, on Wikipedia's Accuracy"

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    Rift Disciple snekadid's Avatar
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    Since you didnt link a spec i basicaly guessed when putting the points into nightblade.

    looking at it, i remind myself that i dislike 51 point talent builds. it means your taking garbage talents<no tree is 100% great for the soul except possibly sab and i still think you can do better outside the tree> in order to get 3-4 extra skills, most of which are not very good either, mostly for the last one.

    for my 2 cents im not a huge fan of sab PVE either. AOEing is pretty fun/funny sometimes. but single target dps is basicaly the same 2 charge set ups over and over with little change inbetween.

    however, i really dont like alot of talents in the ranger tree, you should'nt use trickshot once you have rain of arrows and the spec requires 2 points. im also not very big on double shot or improved quickshot, improved quickshot causes a 3 tick dot that when i tried it at 40 did 16 damage a tick after charging me 3 points for the privilige and as it is with all specs, auto attacks are doing nothing and seem to get intterupted just buy using skills sometimes<i regularly reright click targets just to make sure im attacking since it seems to stop itself>

    i get that you grabbed assassin for a second weapon enchant, i can even accept the points in nightblade. but i cant help but stare at the last skill in ranger and wonder if its worth it, sure those points give the pet better damage and survivability, but i cant help but think that you could do better damage yourself and just cast the bandage skill a few times to make up for your pet taking 26ish percent more damage from AOEs. however if you feel its all worth it lets move on to your question.

    as i said autoattack does very little damage, meaning that the diffrence between 2 quick shots and a shadow fire will not be very much if there is a noticable change. assuming weapon damage is 50<just a sample flat number> 2 quick shots at max tooltip damage does 230 and a shadowfire would do just under 300, add in a auto attack and the distance lessens even more. however i would suggest shadow fire if only because it gives you a 75% up time for a 20% auto attack speed buff<if cast perfectly on the cooldown> which means giving up a auto attack for about 1 extra<2-1 =1> it then breaks down into smaller probability things with the doubleshot talent and its just too much effort for me to bother.

    on a sidenote i dont know why you listed deadeye shot as you cant get it in the spec and headshot is better for you either way. splinter shot i cant comment on as theres so much going on with dots behind the scenes that you may or may not benefit, but i would use it anyways as a break from pressing quickshot over and over.

    I wish you luck if you decide to undertake this<i just dont have the role slots left to test out something i dont favor> and look forward to your results.
    THE TRANSITION TO REAL LIFE
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    PVE:so I decided to go hunting, which was pretty fun till i accidentally right clicked a critter, freaking little girl wouldn't stop crying about her cat.
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  9. #9
    Telaran BurntSushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elewyth View Post
    could be my crit is very low, shadow for me hits quite low...
    Usually my regular damage is between like 600-800 and crit varies like what I said above with Shadowfire. when I use my armor debuff.

    I wish the cast time was a little faster though. Sometimes it feels like forever lol.

    I think that with all my gear and build my crit rate is like 32 or 33%. Pretty much ever shot is a crit with me. Also when I crit I have extra procs that increase my attack power that makes my abilities hit even harder.

  10. #10
    Telaran BurntSushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snekadid View Post
    Since you didnt link a spec i basicaly guessed when putting the points into nightblade.

    looking at it, i remind myself that i dislike 51 point talent builds. it means your taking garbage talents<no tree is 100% great for the soul except possibly sab and i still think you can do better outside the tree> in order to get 3-4 extra skills, most of which are not very good either, mostly for the last one.

    for my 2 cents im not a huge fan of sab PVE either. AOEing is pretty fun/funny sometimes. but single target dps is basicaly the same 2 charge set ups over and over with little change inbetween.

    however, i really dont like alot of talents in the ranger tree, you should'nt use trickshot once you have rain of arrows and the spec requires 2 points. im also not very big on double shot or improved quickshot, improved quickshot causes a 3 tick dot that when i tried it at 40 did 16 damage a tick after charging me 3 points for the privilige and as it is with all specs, auto attacks are doing nothing and seem to get intterupted just buy using skills sometimes<i regularly reright click targets just to make sure im attacking since it seems to stop itself>

    i get that you grabbed assassin for a second weapon enchant, i can even accept the points in nightblade. but i cant help but stare at the last skill in ranger and wonder if its worth it, sure those points give the pet better damage and survivability, but i cant help but think that you could do better damage yourself and just cast the bandage skill a few times to make up for your pet taking 26ish percent more damage from AOEs. however if you feel its all worth it lets move on to your question.

    as i said autoattack does very little damage, meaning that the diffrence between 2 quick shots and a shadow fire will not be very much if there is a noticable change. assuming weapon damage is 50<just a sample flat number> 2 quick shots at max tooltip damage does 230 and a shadowfire would do just under 300, add in a auto attack and the distance lessens even more. however i would suggest shadow fire if only because it gives you a 75% up time for a 20% auto attack speed buff<if cast perfectly on the cooldown> which means giving up a auto attack for about 1 extra<2-1 =1> it then breaks down into smaller probability things with the doubleshot talent and its just too much effort for me to bother.

    on a sidenote i dont know why you listed deadeye shot as you cant get it in the spec and headshot is better for you either way. splinter shot i cant comment on as theres so much going on with dots behind the scenes that you may or may not benefit, but i would use it anyways as a break from pressing quickshot over and over.

    I wish you luck if you decide to undertake this<i just dont have the role slots left to test out something i dont favor> and look forward to your results.
    I honestly don't know why you would say that trick shot is garbage. I will agree if you don't take improved quick shot with it then it is kinda junk. I use Rain of Arrows when my Concussive Blast is on CD.

    Here is my shot rotation for AOE. I start with divert rage and pet heal(if soloing or without a tank)/trick shot until I hit X5 (usually about 350-500 dmg a shot) and then Concussive Blast (usually 1050-1300 to up to 3-4 enemies, hard to see sometimes with all the yellow damage on the screen lol)/Then Rain of Arrows (which is a sea of 450-500 crits for 8 secs)/Then if soloing Heal for pet/ divert rage and if in a group spam Quick Shot until CD for Rain of Arrows is up which is usually two to three shots then repeat until all mobs are dead.

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Elewyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snekadid View Post
    Since you didnt link a spec i basicaly guessed when putting the points into nightblade.

    looking at it, i remind myself that i dislike 51 point talent builds. it means your taking garbage talents<no tree is 100% great for the soul except possibly sab and i still think you can do better outside the tree> in order to get 3-4 extra skills, most of which are not very good either, mostly for the last one.

    for my 2 cents im not a huge fan of sab PVE either. AOEing is pretty fun/funny sometimes. but single target dps is basicaly the same 2 charge set ups over and over with little change inbetween.

    however, i really dont like alot of talents in the ranger tree, you should'nt use trickshot once you have rain of arrows and the spec requires 2 points. im also not very big on double shot or improved quickshot, improved quickshot causes a 3 tick dot that when i tried it at 40 did 16 damage a tick after charging me 3 points for the privilige and as it is with all specs, auto attacks are doing nothing and seem to get intterupted just buy using skills sometimes<i regularly reright click targets just to make sure im attacking since it seems to stop itself>

    i get that you grabbed assassin for a second weapon enchant, i can even accept the points in nightblade. but i cant help but stare at the last skill in ranger and wonder if its worth it, sure those points give the pet better damage and survivability, but i cant help but think that you could do better damage yourself and just cast the bandage skill a few times to make up for your pet taking 26ish percent more damage from AOEs. however if you feel its all worth it lets move on to your question.

    as i said autoattack does very little damage, meaning that the diffrence between 2 quick shots and a shadow fire will not be very much if there is a noticable change. assuming weapon damage is 50<just a sample flat number> 2 quick shots at max tooltip damage does 230 and a shadowfire would do just under 300, add in a auto attack and the distance lessens even more. however i would suggest shadow fire if only because it gives you a 75% up time for a 20% auto attack speed buff<if cast perfectly on the cooldown> which means giving up a auto attack for about 1 extra<2-1 =1> it then breaks down into smaller probability things with the doubleshot talent and its just too much effort for me to bother.

    on a sidenote i dont know why you listed deadeye shot as you cant get it in the spec and headshot is better for you either way. splinter shot i cant comment on as theres so much going on with dots behind the scenes that you may or may not benefit, but i would use it anyways as a break from pressing quickshot over and over.

    I wish you luck if you decide to undertake this<i just dont have the role slots left to test out something i dont favor> and look forward to your results.
    i disagree with trickshot, its a mobile aoe skill, its awesome for hit and runs when aoe is being flung about and you cant channel for any period of time.

    but yes, i prefer rain if the liberty affords itself to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Oh, yeah, how dare we cite to something that is more accurate than Britannica.
    "Seebs, on Wikipedia's Accuracy"

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