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Thread: I don't want to be a saboteur anymore :(

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    Telaran
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    Default I don't want to be a saboteur anymore :(

    If you are good/competitive at all in PvP, you know very well that specs built around Saboteur are the only viable specs.

    No other rogue spec can match the burst and CC of a sab. If you're not a sab in PvP, you're simply not doing the best you can do.

    I'm not gonna sit here and go down the list of everything a sab can do because i'm sure everyone knows by now. I'm just gonna say that I'm disappointed with what Gersh said about upcoming class balances.

    He said there were incoming tweaks to lower the burst potential of sab. I agree with that 100%. It needs to be lowered. However my problem is he didn't mention any type of buff to the other rogue souls. If you nerf sab, you need to buff the others so they can be on par with sab.

    I understand that with the tweaks coming to the other classes, it could even out, but the chances of that are pretty slim and i'm going to assume that the rogue souls will remain underpowered. Please do not reply to this thread claiming that you just need to be skilled in PvP to make the other rogue souls "work"

    Making it "work" isn't enough when warriors and sabs hardly need any effort put in. The souls need to be viable and GOOD. They need tweaks. Everything does. There needs to be a lot of changes. :\

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce View Post
    If you are good/competitive at all in PvP, you know very well that specs built around Saboteur are the only viable specs.

    No other rogue spec can match the burst and CC of a sab. If you're not a sab in PvP, you're simply not doing the best you can do.

    I'm not gonna sit here and go down the list of everything a sab can do because i'm sure everyone knows by now. I'm just gonna say that I'm disappointed with what Gersh said about upcoming class balances.

    He said there were incoming tweaks to lower the burst potential of sab. I agree with that 100%. It needs to be lowered. However my problem is he didn't mention any type of buff to the other rogue souls. If you nerf sab, you need to buff the others so they can be on par with sab.

    I understand that with the tweaks coming to the other classes, it could even out, but the chances of that are pretty slim and i'm going to assume that the rogue souls will remain underpowered. Please do not reply to this thread claiming that you just need to be skilled in PvP to make the other rogue souls "work"

    Making it "work" isn't enough when warriors and sabs hardly need any effort put in. The souls need to be viable and GOOD. They need tweaks. Everything does. There needs to be a lot of changes. :\
    I don't like sab either, in saying that, i've found Nightblade to be very competitive and it is actually fun for me to play.

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    Telaran
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    its true sabo needs a lil nerf and so i hear especially on pvp sides.. but this is going to effect pve as well and atm we are getting destroyed in dps by warriors. yea warriors are getting a tweak too but there is a big need for a rogue buff as far as single target dps. sab was the must have pve dps build too if you wanted to maintain half way descent dps. w a nerf to them, depending on how large it is, our dps in pve is going to plain suck.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethernia View Post
    I don't like sab either, in saying that, i've found Nightblade to be very competitive and it is actually fun for me to play.
    Yes, Nightblade is a very good alternative, however it's still not on par with saboteur. Nightblade is an excellent melee soul. Especially when paired with Assassin or Riftstalker. However, even though it "works" it's not the best.

    Maybe I should've clarified. Ranged rogues are having the most issues. Ranger and Marksmen are having huge issues in PvP.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    ill just afk bot in wfs and get my rank 6 gear and dance in meridian because honestly. if i have 0 viable pvp specs (and after this patch i will) there is no point in even trying to kill people.

    im not going to melee, i did not play rogue to melee! i played to be marksman and when they got nerfed saboteur and once they get nerfed ill have nothing left. fortunately i have a mage warrior and cleric so ill just play them, but all the effort i put in getting to 50 and at 50 will be lost due to the class having 0 viable specs. also on my shard/faction there is 5 rogues to every 1 of any other class, if you run an expert and dont have a minimum of 3 rogues, then you are lucky, it's gotten so bad that we often have 4 rogues and 1 mage or cleric in an expert because that is what is available and plaques are plaques...

    they shouldnt balance this game around pvp, i dont care how broken pvp is, it SHOULD be broken, but nerfing our ONLY pve dps spec and NOT buffing the other nonviable ones is simply the last straw. if this patch nerfs us to the point of 0 dps specs i will simply not play my rogue at all and continue leveling my mage cleric and warrior.

    it seems right now the only class not in the crapper is cleric so maybe ill focus all my attention there since they are the only versatile class that has multiple useful pvp and pve specs.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce View Post
    If you are good/competitive at all in PvP, you know very well that specs built around Saboteur are the only viable specs.
    :\
    Uh no. NB/Sin is VERY competitive and I win 95% of the fights I choose in 1 v 1 and 2 v 1 when I blow my cool downs. Sabo is garbage in the sense that ANYONE can be good at it but very few can be good at NB.
    Zeratul - 50 Rank 6 Rogue/Zeratulz 4x Mage - Seastone Defiant - Rift

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    Shield of Telara baph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce View Post
    However my problem is he didn't mention any type of buff to the other rogue souls. If you nerf sab, you need to buff the others so they can be on par with sab.
    While I agree with the overall point you are trying to make about 1 viable rogue PvP spec, this sentence doesn't even make sense.

    Hopefully they are adjusted so they are no longer head and shoulders over the other rogue souls. Combined with tweaks to Champions and bard heals, it's on the right track to better balance. The only rogue souls that need an actual buff in dmg output for PvP are MM and possibly rangers.

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    Telaran Vendac's Avatar
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    Would you like some cheese with your wine?

    Seriously though, the nerf was coming. Testing showed things were broken. Warriors will take a hit too.

    What I want to see if some of the other rogue classes boosted up some.

    Melee rogues need some love. Marksmen could use a small DPS bump.

    Give it time FFS, game isnt even 6 months old.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeratulz View Post
    Uh no. NB/Sin is VERY competitive and I win 95% of the fights I choose in 1 v 1 and 2 v 1 when I blow my cool downs. Sabo is garbage in the sense that ANYONE can be good at it but very few can be good at NB.
    Lol. Yeah I can win 100% of fights in sin/nb. Now take it to a warfront and see what happens. The point I'm trying to make (which I should've clarified in my OP) is that there is virtually no option to be a ranged rogue besides saboteur. NB/Sin is the only other alternative and whether melee is good or not is debatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vendac View Post
    Would you like some cheese with your wine?

    Seriously though, the nerf was coming. Testing showed things were broken. Warriors will take a hit too.

    What I want to see if some of the other rogue classes boosted up some.

    Melee rogues need some love. Marksmen could use a small DPS bump.

    Give it time FFS, game isnt even 6 months old.
    Did you even read my post?
    Last edited by Royce; 03-23-2011 at 07:29 AM.

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    Telaran BurntSushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce View Post
    Yes, Nightblade is a very good alternative, however it's still not on par with saboteur. Nightblade is an excellent melee soul. Especially when paired with Assassin or Riftstalker. However, even though it "works" it's not the best.

    Maybe I should've clarified. Ranged rogues are having the most issues. Ranger and Marksmen are having huge issues in PvP.
    Yea, both my MM and RGR builds equal a free kill in PvP. Its an absolute joke, if someone sees you plinkin' arrows at something, be sure to expect that you will get jumped because they know that you can do nothing to stop it.

    Now when someone tries to gank me I just stand there and talk to them and lol. I don't even bother to fight back anymore.

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Rykin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethernia View Post
    I don't like sab either, in saying that, i've found Nightblade to be very competitive and it is actually fun for me to play.
    I played Sab in PvP for the last few days and that type of playstyle just does not appeal to me. I would rather play something else but as it stands if you are anything but a sab you are taking up a spot that could be used by warrior or cleric. And while playing sab is far more effective than other rogue souls that only underlines the need to BUFF others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce View Post
    Lol. Yeah I can win 100% of fights in sin/nb. Now take it to a warfront and see what happens. The point I'm trying to make (which I should've clarified in my OP) is that there is virtually no option to be a ranged rogue besides saboteur. NB/Sin is the only other alternative and whether melee is good or not is debatable.



    Did you even read my post?
    I have no problem what so ever in WF so I am not sure what you're trying to get at. Also I run NB/Sin not Sin/NB so perhaps that's where your problem lies. I pick a target, kill it, move on to the next. If I get zerged down and die in the process then oh well but I'm surely taking my target down with me.
    Zeratul - 50 Rank 6 Rogue/Zeratulz 4x Mage - Seastone Defiant - Rift

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  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeratulz View Post
    I have no problem what so ever in WF so I am not sure what you're trying to get at. Also I run NB/Sin not Sin/NB so perhaps that's where your problem lies. I pick a target, kill it, move on to the next. If I get zerged down and die in the process then oh well but I'm surely taking my target down with me.
    You've clearly never played a Sab/Sin spec lol. I know what spec you're talking about. Like I said, it "works" but it's not the best you can do. That's what this whole post is about. How specs built around sab are the best and there's simply no reason to be a different spec.

    Also I wanted to make the point that Ranger and Marksmen need serious tweaks in pvp. Mostly Marksmen because Ranger is a pve intended soul as far as i'm concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce View Post
    You've clearly never played a Sab/Sin spec lol. I know what spec you're talking about. Like I said, it "works" but it's not the best you can do. That's what this whole post is about. How specs built around sab are the best and there's simply no reason to be a different spec.

    Also I wanted to make the point that Ranger and Marksmen need serious tweaks in pvp. Mostly Marksmen because Ranger is a pve intended soul as far as i'm concerned.
    Ok I understand what you're getting at and you're right. I REFUSE to play Sabo because it's stupid and easy mode. I never do easy mode. Also I'm a strong advocate of Ranger/MM buffs, just look at my previous posts/threads.
    Zeratul - 50 Rank 6 Rogue/Zeratulz 4x Mage - Seastone Defiant - Rift

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rykin View Post
    I played Sab in PvP for the last few days and that type of playstyle just does not appeal to me. I would rather play something else but as it stands if you are anything but a sab you are taking up a spot that could be used by warrior or cleric. And while playing sab is far more effective than other rogue souls that only underlines the need to BUFF others.
    Try Nightblade.

    I am REALLY enjoying it, even though i come from a prefered ranger/marks spec, i tried sab and i really did not like how it played.

    Tried assassin and felt gimp, tried Nightblade and actually felt useful!

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