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Thread: Simple Bard changes

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Simple Bard changes

    Bards are one of my favorite souls to play, because they contain features that I consider fun and just plain cool. The selling point for me is that they are musicians. (so am I IRL =p ) While playing this soul I have thought of a few changes which could give more "umph" to the class overall.

    **Some of these changes need not take affect if another one is taken instead**

    Change 1) Combine Motif of Grandeur and Motif of Tenacity to have 4 Motifs to play in order to cut back on time spent on them and keybinds used for them. (I'm not including Motif of Encouragement)
    and/or
    Change 2) Cause Motifs to generate combo points on a target if combo points can be generated on the target.

    Change 3) Allow most bard buffs to stack with other classes buffs as to not reduce our need in groups/raids to being slight AoE heals and slight buffs + Verse of Joy.
    and/or
    Change 4) Allow bards to also be a "healing soul". One solution to this that I thought up of was to give Bards a "Beacon" like spell, similar to a paladin in WoW. ***For an example of what this beacon would do I just randomly made numbers up which of course CAN CHANGE, and I am not looking for number passing in this suggestion.*** While placed on a target the Beacon would reduce all healing by 50%, but it would then increase healing done by the bard to the beacon target by 500%. For an example, Beacon is placed on a tank, Cadence ticks for 120 non crit which is reduced to 60 on all targets, and then the beaconed tank would be healed for 300 per Cadence tick. Another example would be, Coda of Restoration heals for 660 non crit, reduced to 330 healing to everyone it hits, and then heals the beaconed tank for 1650. This would allow the Bard to choose between an AoE healer and a single target healer with minor AoE heals. Along with this change Bards could maybe get an out of combat rezz? =p

    Change 5) Increase the range on Cadence attacks by 5 yards or so.

    I would love some feedback on what everyone else thinks in a constructive manner please.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Along the lines of your beacon idea, could just create a talent that makes it so all healing done by cadence is done on your focus, instead of on the entire group. Which I think would work better, because it would force bards to either target heal one player or heal the entire group, but not both. The skill would be a toggle, allowing bards to decide when to heal the entire group and when to focus on one person.

    Giving bards the opportunity to main heal would be a good idea, I think. Mages have a soul that can main heal, so why not rogues.
    Last edited by Krazed59; 03-22-2011 at 09:07 AM.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Culmus View Post
    Bards are one of my favorite souls to play, because they contain features that I consider fun and just plain cool. The selling point for me is that they are musicians. (so am I IRL =p ) While playing this soul I have thought of a few changes which could give more "umph" to the class overall.

    **Some of these changes need not take affect if another one is taken instead**

    Change 1) Combine Motif of Grandeur and Motif of Tenacity to have 4 Motifs to play in order to cut back on time spent on them and keybinds used for them. (I'm not including Motif of Encouragement)
    and/or
    Change 2) Cause Motifs to generate combo points on a target if combo points can be generated on the target.

    Change 3) Allow most bard buffs to stack with other classes buffs as to not reduce our need in groups/raids to being slight AoE heals and slight buffs + Verse of Joy.
    and/or
    Change 4) Allow bards to also be a "healing soul". One solution to this that I thought up of was to give Bards a "Beacon" like spell, similar to a paladin in WoW. ***For an example of what this beacon would do I just randomly made numbers up which of course CAN CHANGE, and I am not looking for number passing in this suggestion.*** While placed on a target the Beacon would reduce all healing by 50%, but it would then increase healing done by the bard to the beacon target by 500%. For an example, Beacon is placed on a tank, Cadence ticks for 120 non crit which is reduced to 60 on all targets, and then the beaconed tank would be healed for 300 per Cadence tick. Another example would be, Coda of Restoration heals for 660 non crit, reduced to 330 healing to everyone it hits, and then heals the beaconed tank for 1650. This would allow the Bard to choose between an AoE healer and a single target healer with minor AoE heals. Along with this change Bards could maybe get an out of combat rezz? =p

    Change 5) Increase the range on Cadence attacks by 5 yards or so.

    I would love some feedback on what everyone else thinks in a constructive manner please.
    Bard would be kinda op then. Clerics would be mostly obsolete, as thats insane healing and it also has buffs.

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazed59 View Post
    Along the lines of your beacon idea, could just create a talent that makes it so all healing done by cadence is done on your focus, instead of on the entire group. Which I think would work better, because it would force bards to either target heal one player or heal the entire group, but not both. The skill would be a toggle, allowing bards to decide when to heal the entire group and when to focus on one person.

    Giving bards the opportunity to main heal would be a good idea, I think. Mages have a soul that can main heal, so why not rogues.
    Rogues would be tank, heal, and dps, like cleric. Except they'd be better at all of them, except possibly healing.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazed59 View Post
    Along the lines of your beacon idea, could just create a talent that makes it so all healing done by cadence is done on your focus, instead of on the entire group. Which I think would work better, because it would force bards to either target heal one player or heal the entire group, but not both. The skill would be a toggle, allowing bards to decide when to heal the entire group and when to focus on one person.

    Giving bards the opportunity to main heal would be a good idea, I think. Mages have a soul that can main heal, so why not rogues.
    I thought about something along the lines of this at first, except it applied to Coda of Restoration too, but then the trouble would come from not being able to heal in AoE. Since healers essentially have some Single target and AoE I thought about Bards doing both too. This is why I thought of the reduced healing to AoE as I do not want Bards to be similar to other healers but vastly superior in AoE at the same time.

    The toggle idea is a nice one and it would be in the form of placing the "Beacon" on someone or not I guess.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    I like all ideas except 4. I would rather have the Bard's focus less on healing and more on buffing, debuffing, mana/energy regeneration and maybe even crowd control. In other words I would like more utility but neither more healing, dps nor tanking capability.

    People already seem to call Bards off- or support healers but that is an extreme reduction in my opinion. When I read the soul description and did choose Bard as my first soul, I undertood that our purpose is to support all other roles by making them stronger. But in practice I see way too much emphasis on our healing components.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Culmus View Post
    Change 1) Combine Motif of Grandeur and Motif of Tenacity to have 4 Motifs to play in order to cut back on time spent on them and keybinds used for them. (I'm not including Motif of Encouragement)
    It would certainly make things simpler to combine the two. Right now I think they like the fact that the Bard has to spend a lot of time buffing/debuffing. If, however, they changed their minds, I could probably see them increasing the 30 second duration to 45 or even a minute before they would combine the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Culmus View Post
    Change 2) Cause Motifs to generate combo points on a target if combo points can be generated on the target.
    This would alleviate a big problem with Bards in that it takes at least 10 seconds to rebuff all Motifs AND build up 5 combo points again. That's a long time without using our debuff or healing finishers. However, right now Motifs are group spells and don't require a target. Linking them to a target might take a LOT of extra coding. I think even though this would work well from a game standpoint, they would end up taking an easier road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Culmus View Post
    Change 3) Allow most bard buffs to stack with other classes buffs as to not reduce our need in groups/raids to being slight AoE heals and slight buffs + Verse of Joy.
    This would affect balancing. Instead of balancing for one of each support type buff/debuff, they would have to balance for multiple and, thus, it would almost REQUIRE multiple support for every raid. So while it's unfair for a bard to be almost useless when there are other support players in the raid, it's almost necessary for balancing. Good thing we can switch to alternate roles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Culmus View Post
    Change 4) Allow bards to also be a "healing soul". One solution to this that I thought up of was to give Bards a "Beacon" like spell, similar to a paladin in WoW. ***For an example of what this beacon would do I just randomly made numbers up which of course CAN CHANGE, and I am not looking for number passing in this suggestion.*** While placed on a target the Beacon would reduce all healing by 50%, but it would then increase healing done by the bard to the beacon target by 500%. For an example, Beacon is placed on a tank, Cadence ticks for 120 non crit which is reduced to 60 on all targets, and then the beaconed tank would be healed for 300 per Cadence tick. Another example would be, Coda of Restoration heals for 660 non crit, reduced to 330 healing to everyone it hits, and then heals the beaconed tank for 1650. This would allow the Bard to choose between an AoE healer and a single target healer with minor AoE heals. Along with this change Bards could maybe get an out of combat rezz? =p
    I think Bards will, at some point, become better at single targeting healing. This sounds like a pretty good mechanic to do that. The development team don't want the Bard to have to constantly target their party members but if it's a one time spell that then benefits extra from our other group heals, they might allow that. I don't think we'll ever be main healers but I could see us becoming a little more useful in the healing department since our DPS will likely never increase and our buffs/debuffs don't stack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Culmus View Post
    Change 5) Increase the range on Cadence attacks by 5 yards or so.
    I'm sure the 20 range was decided on as a way to bring a negative to the class in order to balance the other big positives. I'd personally love increased range but I can see where they are coming from by limiting us to 20. If they decide that the range limitations are no longer needed to balance us, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave us a little more range.

    Love seeing constructive posts with great ideas. As usual though, it will come down to ease of implementation and balancing as to whether anything like this will be added.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekias View Post
    This would affect balancing. Instead of balancing for one of each support type buff/debuff, they would have to balance for multiple and, thus, it would almost REQUIRE multiple support for every raid. So while it's unfair for a bard to be almost useless when there are other support players in the raid, it's almost necessary for balancing. Good thing we can switch to alternate roles.



    Love seeing constructive posts with great ideas. As usual though, it will come down to ease of implementation and balancing as to whether anything like this will be added.
    I completely understand the balancing/implementation aspect, and I just got some of these ideas from other games. "Beacon" from WoW and the buff/support role from Bards in EQ

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    Bards have always been a jack-of-all-trades class. They buff a little, they heal a little, they do a little damage. This comes at the expense of being the master of no single role. It is the definition of a support role. If anything, maybe a single target motif that reduces or absorbs a set amount of incoming damage or set amount of time with a reasonable CD (10 seconds for 30-45 sec CD). Instead of figuring out how to dominate one role, maybe better ideas would be best generated toward more specialized support, things other classes don't do to make the appeal greater. Another good one would be like a short term frenzy type buff... group wide attack/casting speed buff or something that procs damage on all successful attacks for a short period.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Shyzhi's Avatar
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    Only thing that needs to be changed is adding a nice 5sec CD on each motif so you can macro them, im not a massive macro fan but.. having like 10000000 motifs is annoying :P and is wasting some of my hotkeys lol
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  11. #11
    Koe
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    I play a bard and my only gripe is that buffs don't stack properly. Everything else is NOT needed, or wanted.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baynne View Post
    Bards have always been a jack-of-all-trades class. They buff a little, they heal a little, they do a little damage. This comes at the expense of being the master of no single role. It is the definition of a support role. If anything, maybe a single target motif that reduces or absorbs a set amount of incoming damage or set amount of time with a reasonable CD (10 seconds for 30-45 sec CD). Instead of figuring out how to dominate one role, maybe better ideas would be best generated toward more specialized support, things other classes don't do to make the appeal greater. Another good one would be like a short term frenzy type buff... group wide attack/casting speed buff or something that procs damage on all successful attacks for a short period.
    The frenzy/bloodlust/heroism or w/e you want to call it is allready in the game, the Archon soul I think? I might have worded it wrong, but that is what I was trying to make Change 3 about. Many of the buffs that Bard supply can be covered by other classes that also heal better or dps better than a Bard. I would be fine with a complete support role if most of what we did was not overshadowed by other classes.

    I will edit the original post to include a more in depth support role change.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Bah, can't edit the posts. I guess I'll have to contact an Admin to help.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    I would love to enjoy playing a bard. However, motifs ruin it for me. I think it is a solid soul, but it just isn't fun to rebuff motifs every 30 seconds. I really feel like a higher tier talent that would let either Cadence or any Coda refresh all active motifs would go a long way in making the soul feel enjoyable to play instead of like a chore.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    I agree, the 30 second bit with our motifs is much too short in duration

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