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Thread: Complete feedback about Marksman (endgame)

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Helluin's Avatar
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    Exclamation Complete feedback about Marksman (endgame)

    This soul is at the moment poor in pve and also in pvp for many reasons, especially because dps is too low, it doesn't give any buff or utility to groups, it doesn't have enough spike damage in pvp or a good incoming heal debuff (you have to spec high in Ranger or Nightblade for it; Infiltrator has just an outgoing heal debuff and it has really poor talents and abilities compared to normal rogue souls and to the pvp souls of the other 3 callings).

    This problem is also related to Assassin and Bladedancer: together with Marksman these souls have pretty no role in pve and in pvp, also because Warriors are at the moment absolutely overpowered in pve and in pvp because their higher dps, survivability and utility. At least in pve Assassin can do its job.
    A player who likes a ranged rogue is pretty forced to spec spending more points or in Saboteur or in Ranger for many reasons: dps, utility, cc and so on. Even doing this, what you gain is still not so good.

    Since there is the option and there are players who prefer spec into Marksman and not be forced to play a bombing terrorist or an easy soul with a pet, this soul requires to be improved and changed slightly on some talents and abilities.

    This soul mainly lacks two abilities and something to generate two combo points:

    1) something like Lingering Wounds (Warrior – Champion) would be good as heal debuff or a dot ability to debuff incoming healing
    2) an X second cast ability generating two combo points to drain mana from target instant or the same with instant cast but working over time as dot/mana drain over time.


    I write you then a complete feedback evaluating the soul in its Branch and Root advancements.
    These are just hints, it doesn't mean that everything should be changed.
    Opinions by other MM players are more than welcome to improve this feedback.



    Branch Advancement:

    - Single Minded Focus: good talent.
    - Keen Eye: with warriors able to attack from 20 meters, that is too much, this bonus should be increased from a total of 5 meters to 10 meters or warriors' abilities reduced to 15 meters from 20 meters.

    - Increased Fire Power: good talent.
    - Repelling Shot: this attack should not be blocked, parried or dodged like many attacks of other souls. Range of this attack is too low, it should be increased to match other knock backs in the game and consider this is a ranged soul. Working from 10-15 meters it would be better.
    - Sharpshooter: not impressive but good.
    - Improved Swift Shot: the total bonus could be improved from 2% to 3%

    - Penetrating Shots: total bonus could be increased from 20% to 25% or 30%.
    - On the Double: good talent.
    - Hasty Departure: against many souls in five hits your Marksman is dead, speed bonus should then be higher or be the same but adding a secondary bonus (example X% chance to evade or resist or deflect X% damage to attacker or something else)

    - Master Archer: previous version was better, actual version is poor. Chance to proc should be increased or talent should be changed in something like “For every point spent the Marksman soul above 21, your damage (and/or your speed abilities) is (are) increased by X%”. Something between 0,25 and 0,5% can be good. At least with this, only who spends many points on this soul is betterr rewarded, as it happens already for many souls.
    - Improved Repelling Shot: good as it is or keep it single target but gaining the better range and the chance to not be blocked, parried or dodged as written for Repelling Shot.
    - Getaway: good as it is.
    - Static Shot: damage should not remove the effect, at least damage by others.

    - Killer Instinct: quite good.
    - Close Quarters Combat: good talent.
    - Sniper Training: decent, for a quite high talent bonus could be better or grant also 3% critical hit.

    - Collateral Damage: enough good but not the best considering the tier and other souls.
    - Rapid Extrication: really nice talent, maybe a reduction on the duration of Stun received for 1-2 seconds could be an option or reduce also the cooldwon of Bull's Eye.
    - Crossfire: good ability, increasing range from 10 to 15 meters could be an idea if Repelling Shot doesn't change.

    - Strafe: with the changement to the mechanic using Bull's Eye, damage is not really good for a 31 points ability. Damage could be improved or changed from physical to Air Damage or the attack should gain the chance to not be blocked, parried, dodged or interrupted.


    Root Advancement:

    All the abilities are enough good, just the ones I write should be reworked.
    Damage should change according to the proposed changement to Master Archer. If Master Archer doesn't change, they should gain a little buff.
    The new abilities 1 and 2 I wrote before should be implemented.

    - Barbed Shot: damage per tick should be slightly improved.
    - Marksman's Pedestal: considering the mechanic of the class to be really a mobile, a pedestal has pretty no sense. Ability should be reworked at all (maybe a buff to party would make this soul more required for pve/pvp) or it should change its mechanic into something like this: personal buff for one hour “Being still for 1 second, the Marksman gains a buff of 10% damage for 10 seconds. For every second still buff is refreshed.”. This new mechanic would be really good but to balance it, being a buff, it can be removed.
    - Bull's Eye: it could work on the next two damaging abilities but even if it doesn't change it is enough good or maybe it could gain a reduced cooldown through Rapid Extrication.
    - Retreat: cooldown could be increased to two minutes gaining the ability to remove stun.
    - Sniper's Pedestal: like before, considering the mechanic of the class to be really a mobile, a pedestal has pretty no sense. Ability should be reworked at all (maybe a buff to party would make this soul more required for pve/pvp) or it should change its mechanic into something like this: personal buff for one hour “Being still for 1 (or 2) second, the Marksman gains a buff of 30% damage for 10 (or 15) seconds. For every second (or 2) still buff is refreshed.”. This new mechanic would be really good but to balance it, being a buff, it can be removed.


    I hope you can find good hints in this feedback.
    I repeat that the proposal changements should be not implemented all together but just some of them would make again Marksman a good soul in pve and pvp.
    Last edited by Helluin; 03-22-2011 at 03:54 AM.
    "... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of Earth awoke, the Firstborne of Ilúvatar."

  2. #2
    Telaran Bloodmaw's Avatar
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    Nice post, Marksman kiting currently is laughable, any extra range is negated by lag, soft CC and any antisocial terrain. Repelling shot needing point blank range is also incredibly poor design...

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Sehnsucht's Avatar
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    TL;DR of the OP: I have no numbers to back up my words but I like to whine and write long-winded posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helluin View Post
    Warriors are at the moment absolutely overpowered in pve and in pvp
    QQ moar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodmaw View Post
    Marksman kiting currently is laughable
    Smells like L2P issue.
    Last edited by Sehnsucht; 03-22-2011 at 04:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Sehnsucht is almost impossible to translate adequately and describes a deep emotional state.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
    QQ moar.


    Smells like L2P issue.
    Smells like overpowered 2 macro button facerolling champ.....

  5. #5
    Shadowlander Netherx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
    TL;DR of the OP: I have no numbers to back up my words but I like to whine and write long-winded posts.


    QQ moar.


    Smells like L2P issue.
    said a guy who wants flying mounts in rift. roflmao

  6. #6
    Sword of Telara Sehnsucht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    Smells like overpowered 2 macro button facerolling champ.....
    I actually play a rogue but that's not the point. The point is that proof is needed. Any complaint w/o proof = whining and fail.

    If you say wars are OP in PvP, give premade vs. premade chart screenshots where wars are topping KBs by a big margin. If you say wars are OP in PvE, DPS parses are needed for top DPS specs of both classes.

    As for MM kiting "problems", that's just laughable. To kite in PvE you only need speed and awareness. MM has speed. So if you can't kite as MM, the root of the problem is kind of obvious...
    Last edited by Sehnsucht; 03-22-2011 at 04:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Sehnsucht is almost impossible to translate adequately and describes a deep emotional state.

  7. #7
    Sword of Telara Sehnsucht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherx View Post
    said a guy who wants flying mounts in rift
    What's wrong with flying mounts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Sehnsucht is almost impossible to translate adequately and describes a deep emotional state.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander Netherx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
    What's wrong with flying mounts?
    it destroys world pvp. obviously..

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara Sehnsucht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherx View Post
    it destroys world pvp. obviously..
    OMG, Rfit has world PvP? How come I've never seen it playing on 2 different PvP servers? (No, occasional ganking doesn't count and it'll be there anyway. Flying mounts or not.)
    Last edited by Sehnsucht; 03-22-2011 at 05:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Sehnsucht is almost impossible to translate adequately and describes a deep emotional state.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Netherx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
    OMG, Rfit has world PvP? How come I've never seen it playing on 2 different PvP servers? (No, occasional ganking doesn't count and it'll be there anyway. Flying mounts or not.)
    its easy to explain. you are blind.
    and ganking is also the part of world pvp btw.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
    TL;DR of the OP: I have no numbers to back up my words but I like to whine and write long-winded posts.


    QQ moar.


    Smells like L2P issue.
    Seriously get the f*** out of this thread if you have nothing positive to contribute you worthless troll. The fact that more and more of these threads are popping up on a daily basis is fact enough that MM/Rangers need a buff in pvp. Do you see these types of threads in the Warrior forums?!?!?!? No you don't so ****. The MM nerf that took place right before the game went live was far too much and needs to be reverted or at least reviewed again. The fact that a role isn't viable in pvp is a huge problem as pvp exists in the game and isn't going away.
    Zeratul - 50 Rank 6 Rogue/Zeratulz 4x Mage - Seastone Defiant - Rift

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  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Sehnsucht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherx View Post
    and ganking is also the part of world pvp btw.
    Indeed. 99.9% of it and even then it happens once in a blue moon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Sehnsucht is almost impossible to translate adequately and describes a deep emotional state.

  13. #13
    Sword of Telara Sehnsucht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeratulz View Post
    The fact that more and more of these threads are popping up on a daily basis is fact enough that MM/Rangers need a buff in pvp.
    One thread with proof would be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeratulz View Post
    The fact that a role isn't viable in pvp is a huge problem as pvp exists in the game and isn't going away.
    Because all souls are supposed to be equally viable in PvP.
    /facepalm
    Last edited by Sehnsucht; 03-22-2011 at 07:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Sehnsucht is almost impossible to translate adequately and describes a deep emotional state.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched Gerrard Ennui's Avatar
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    I agree with everything the OP has said and would also like to see MM made more viable.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Apoth's Avatar
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    great thread ... as a marksman I think the soul overall is completely lacking. especially your point about strafe. it is completely frustrating to line up strafe only to have it miss especially with a one minute cool down.

    i post in another thread where i was shouted down saying "don't make marksman a one trick pony with strafe" but thats exactly how i feel they are right now. i mean deadeye is nice but not when i see tanks and sabs out damaging my big hitting nuke.

    this soul needs a role besides the "kiting" soul, its like everything in this soul can be done BETTER by another soul.

    WTB the above item .... mine broke

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