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Thread: Raid - Bard = Wipes

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Thumbs up Raid - Bard = Wipes

    Just keep seeing alot of things that are completely WRONG about bards. So I'm going to throw out some quick stats, and the contribution that bards give to dungeons and raids, if you are forming a group, and you need one more person, a SKILLED bard should be top priority, here's why.

    The main misconception I keep seeing is that bards don't do very good dps. This is a blatant lie. While we don't do much dps directly, we use you as slaves to dps for us. Here's how


    1. AoF (Anthem of Fervor) 10% ability cost reduction.
    So in a five man, of the 3 dps (not to mention the tanks dps) 10% of your dps is mine...
    Your Dps - 90% x3.5 = My DPS.

    2. Motifs 5% of your Crit Strike Damage is mine. and 62 AP/SP worth of your DPS is also mine.

    3. FoP FoK (Fanfare of Power) Fanfare of Knowledge 52 Str Dex Int Wis This damage is mine.

    4. Resonance, increases every single stat of every raid member by 5%. ( More dps for me )

    5. 20% in combat speed boost

    6. 12% Overall Damage Reduction with Motif of Tenacity and Anthem of Defiance

    CoC CoD ( Coda of Cowardice and Coda of Distress ) 7% Non physical and 5 % physical Damage increase, x Number of Raid DPS. (More DPS for me)

    Not to mention, pretty massive healing when everyone is taking damage. Damage reduction, Also I can heal through ANYTHING for 15 seconds ever 3 minutes, and I do mean anything, with Riff/Virtuoso Coda of Resto macro. Lots of times the healer dies for whatever reason, I can keep everyone alive while our cleric tank battle rezzes the healer, and then I rebuff him and keep on trucking.

    Verse of Joy, Basically a "Bloodlust", Massive dps increase (which is also my dps), and also restores at least 1500 Mana per raid member

    Cadence = Amazing, bottom line.

    The same info throughout this post applies to healing as well in the place of dps.

    Bards can also CC massive groups while in combat, cc single targets repeatedly with no cooldown while in combat, and interrupt. And if specced properly, stealth with a 45 Sec CC, and adhesive bomb (debatable).

    The more people in the raid, the higher the bards overall dps/healing indirectly, so in a 20 man raid and rifts, your dps will be paltry compared to mine, and honestly, when you add all that indirect damage up probably in a 5 man as well, a bard will likely be your top dps, much like barding in the warfronts topping dps and heals. Basically, a good bard makes you much better than you think you are. I've done raids with my guild, and heard them angry with each other in vent. I come in, and make encounters laughable.

    So I will enjoy my "low dps" and pad your numbers, A skilled bard is just as important as a tank or healer or your raid group.


    Raid - Bard = Wipes.
    Last edited by Inthebeginning; 03-21-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    I do not know 1 single raid that would go without 1 bard...

    How on earth is 10% ability cost reduction = to 10% of my DPS... You have a PhD in Broscience? Woo! You just made my damage ability cost 2 less energy. Adds up doesn't it? But since I never actually have to wait on energy outside of the GCD, it is kinda pointless don't you think?

    And 8 second AoE mezz is not CC.

    Very useful in a raid. Still useful in a dungeon, but I have yet to wipe and think "Damn! We could have had that with a bard instead of the 1k DPS warrior!" The day I do, I will agree with every point you tried to make.

    Personally, as a tank, I always try to bring a bard, but everything goes just as smooth without one.
    Last edited by Lotusfreek; 03-21-2011 at 11:34 PM.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Good post.

    However: "The more people in the raid, the higher the bards overall dps/healing indirectly,"

    Not entirely true, as the bigger group is likely to contain another bard, or archon, or someone else with buffs that don't stack with yours.

  4. #4
    Rift Master
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    Bards are great for raids. For T2s and small man content I'd rather take a Chloro/Archon and have the rogue go DPS.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple NeVeRLiFt's Avatar
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    @Inthebeginning

    great post!

    on my server bards are much loved ;)
    The overman...Who has organized the chaos of his passions, given style to his character, and become creative. Aware of life's terrors, he affirms life without resentment.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Marre's Avatar
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    chloro > bard in raid. also 10% reduction

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marre View Post
    chloro > bard in raid. also 10% reduction
    Yep, chloro is better than bard in every way imaginable, as well as archon, and our stuff doesn't even stack with theirs :/

  8. #8
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthebeginning View Post
    The main misconception I keep seeing is that bards don't do very good dps. This is a blatant lie. While we don't do much dps directly, we use you as slaves to dps for us. Here's how
    Bard buffs don't provide enough DPS in a 5 man to make up for their lack of personal DPS. You use them for the healing. In a raid they do, but as others have said, Archons/Chloros do it better.
    Pessimistick - <Esti Efiu> - Mage - Guardian - Sunrest
    Ippon - <Esti Efiu> - Rogue - Guardian - Sunrest
    Uchimata - <Esti Efiu> - Cleric - Guardian - Sunrest
    Noppi - <Esti Efiu> - Warrior - Guardian - Sunrest
    Ippon - <Spike Flail> - Ner'zhul

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    How do you figure that a 10% reduction in skill cost is equal to a 10% increase in damage done? Maybe for a DPS spec that is resource capped and not GCD capped. But this is not the case for Clerics or Mages. And would it not be multiplied by 2.5 since the Bard is taking the place of one of the groups DPS? Unless you're somehow running without a main healer.

    Verse of Joy can be quite good. Unfortunately the mana return won't scale.

    The vast majority of our buffs and debuffs can be brought by other classes. Chloro/Archon in particular. They also have stronger healing.

    Bards are not in a bad place by any means. However we aren't exactly on top of the world.
    Last edited by Lostsnail; 03-22-2011 at 03:27 AM. Reason: Spelling error :(

  10. #10
    lud
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    bards are useless for anything but aoe bosses, you think people want you as bard during trash?

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple jennytwotone's Avatar
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    i dunno, i have a spammable ranged aoe. it certainly isnt booby trap spam. its just my aoe happens to spamheal on the way to aoeing - and if i do a resist debuff it hits for 200-350 at level 25. I dont know what damage i am supposed to be doing to bring respectable aoe dps to the table, but my aoe dps has healing utility in it.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Istarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lud View Post
    bards are useless for anything but aoe bosses, you think people want you as bard during trash?
    If you play bard and don't have a decent bard/dps hybrid build for trash pulls, you're doing it wrong. My group loves having me bard the big trash pulls; I boost everybody else's dps, help keep the group alive, and pull very respectable dps in my own right (usually pretty close to a chloro).
    "So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their ending." ~JRR Tolkien
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  13. #13
    lud
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    If a group is killed during trash then it's a bad group, sab is 650-900 single target dps depending on gear and 1000's when aoe, best i've seen a bard do is 200.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Really the hard part is finding a mental patient that's had a lobotomy that actually WANTS to play a bard.

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