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Thread: Rogue: daggers vs swords vs Pie!

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple frostypepper's Avatar
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    Default Rogue: daggers vs swords vs Pie!

    No pie, sorry...just daggers and swords.
    Ok heres what I got, I have two of both. I so like matching weapons (thanks Malformed and Manx for the awesome gear)

    Damascus Shivs (daggers)
    Damage: 14.4
    18-34 damage per 1.8 sec
    dex 15
    end 6
    crit 6
    dodge 6

    Damascus Swords (not sure the exact name)
    Damage 14.3
    21-39 damage per 2.1 sec
    str 8
    dex 5
    end 12
    parry 8

    So my questions is, are weapons normalized? I have used the shivs for my assassin and they do great, but started to use the swords which seem to do the same if not more damage.

    Would faster be better? Slower? Keep both and use them dependent on what build Im using?

    I plan on using a bladedancer build, would the swords be better for parry? The shivs better for a assassin?

    Any input on the matter would be great.

  2. #2
    Telaran Mamox's Avatar
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    I've been wondering this as well. What is the theory crafting of swords vs daggers. Usually I know my **** in MMO's but since this is a new game I have no idea what to use.

    Also, slower weapon in main hand...off hand...where? I don't know any of the facts teach me PLEASE :P

  3. #3
    Telaran Timmie's Avatar
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    Pie>everything else

  4. #4
    Ascendant Naronas's Avatar
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    As near as I can figure, BD goes for slow, hard hitting weapons. Sin goes for quick, lighter weapons. (More crits)

  5. #5
    Telaran Uiluri's Avatar
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    I'm playing a Bladedancer; my personal philosophy tends to be that faster = better. I don't have anything to back that up other than that's my preference.

    I would love to see a pie-throwing event in-game; maybe something for next Pi Day.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    ability damage is based only on the average dps listed on the weapon, the speed and damage x - damage y mean nothing unless you're talking about the auto attack

    go for the weapon with the most dex
    attack power is useless
    parry is useless
    Last edited by Elbee; 03-21-2011 at 03:28 PM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker meinotchu's Avatar
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    So far playing with a BD build I've found that slow/slow works really well (due to so many of BD's offhand strikes being weap dmg + x dmg with + y% AP).

    Playing Sin, slow/fast seems to work best (due to all attacks being main hand dmg based) and the faster offhand working for more poison procs.

    As NB, I've found it doesn't really seem to matter due to the amount of dots.

    Find RS kinda odd and clunky for some reason.

    Also, anybody else feel that the Paragon should play more like a BD?

  8. #8
    Ascendant Masta Squidge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamox View Post
    I've been wondering this as well. What is the theory crafting of swords vs daggers. Usually I know my **** in MMO's but since this is a new game I have no idea what to use.

    Also, slower weapon in main hand...off hand...where? I don't know any of the facts teach me PLEASE :P
    If you are an assassin, then using daggers results in more poison procs I believe. I could be wrong, but from what I understand skill damage is normalized based on the weapon DPS.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Masta Squidge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meinotchu View Post
    So far playing with a BD build I've found that slow/slow works really well (due to so many of BD's offhand strikes being weap dmg + x dmg with + y% AP).

    Playing Sin, slow/fast seems to work best (due to all attacks being main hand dmg based) and the faster offhand working for more poison procs.

    As NB, I've found it doesn't really seem to matter due to the amount of dots.

    Find RS kinda odd and clunky for some reason.

    Also, anybody else feel that the Paragon should play more like a BD?
    Which is sound logic and likely based on playing wow where this is true for rogues. However, if attacks are based on weapon dps, not weapon damage, then daggers are the best bet in both hands for assassins, because of poisons. This would also mean that for any other build it doesnt make a difference in your overall DPS.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Cruor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naronas View Post
    As near as I can figure, BD goes for slow, hard hitting weapons. Sin goes for quick, lighter weapons. (More crits)
    That used to be the case when poisons didn't have a PPM (proc per minute) and faster weapons were generally an increase in dps. Though all skills are now weapon damage + (some number). This goes off the base weapon damage in your main hand slot. So generally speaking slower weapons will have a higher base damage and therefore offer more dps on skill use-age.

    To my knowledge skills don't reset your white damage, so a faster weapon will crit more white damage (sin) yes. Marksmans will also see white damage while casting (doesn't make sense) but there ya go. If I am wrong, please feel free to correct.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbee View Post
    ability damage is based only on the average dps listed on the weapon, the speed and damage x - damage y mean nothing unless you're talking about the auto attack

    go for the weapon with the most dex
    attack power is useless
    parry is useless
    Parry is never useless. AP has a huge effect on finishers.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Masta Squidge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone View Post
    Parry is never useless. AP has a huge effect on finishers.
    Parry is useless as DPS in any situation where the mob is not attacking you. You know, like anything involving a tank.

    Which is essentially the only time outside of PvP that your DPS doesnt matter anyways.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Shioc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
    If you are an assassin, then using daggers results in more poison procs I believe. I could be wrong, but from what I understand skill damage is normalized based on the weapon DPS.
    Thats interesting, I play an assassin and prefer slow M/H fast O/H, which normally turns out to be Sword/Dagger, I might try the two daggers and see what the go is

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    I tested this quite a bit on my Rogue (only level 20, but tested on same mobs with same level, at various levels and with various souls) - and all of my testing concluded that only weapon dps matters for attack damage. It is not like WoW's system, or particularly the classic wow system, where you grab the slowest weapon and spam instants. Rather, your dps determines your attack damage. So, unless someone can provide data proving otherwise - the correct choice is to pick fast weapons for more poison procs. Or weapons with better stats/dps. Whichever, according to your math or thoughts, gives you more damage.

    I personally tried double axe (2.4 speed) which did way more per hit and I hit for the same amount as I did with my daggers which were the same dps but much faster - with both combo pt abilities AND finishers. When I realized my daggers did as much damage on ability attacks as my axes or swords (from testing), had better rogue stats (read: dex), looked cooler on me as an Assassin (imo), and procced poisons more often by a large margin - I knew what weapons I wanted from then on.
    Last edited by Vathileon; 03-21-2011 at 07:30 PM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Naronas's Avatar
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    Also, Sin has 30% poison application chance, more melee swings in theory should mean higher dps off that as well. At least that would make sense.

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