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Thread: assassin...i just cant kill healers...

  1. #1
    Sword of Telara
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    Default assassin...i just cant kill healers...

    no way i will be able to kill healer even in 2vs1 =/
    with 0 silences , 0 reduce healings , 1-2 interrupts... am i a rogue? because rogues are the masters of reduce healing(in any MMO) but it seems like here its either be 32 NB and get pwned by assassins or be assassin and get pwned by healers...

    the food chain:

    assassin > all the other rogue's souls and all the other souls in game!(not sure about champs)
    any healer > assassin
    dominater/void knight > any healer
    champ > ALL

    it seems like champ as 0 counters while im stuck in the choice: kill healers? or kill everything else?

  2. #2
    General of Telara Tugrath's Avatar
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    I can't kill anyone. So you've got one person to look down on at least.
    Don't mind me, I'm just being an idiot.

    What you did there, I see it.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Absconditus's Avatar
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    I do actually kill healers, not all of course, but the ones I kill are mainly due to Cloudy Poison and Anathema from the Infiltrator tree (as well as Foul Play of course). But a trade-off is that I can get kited fairly easy if I don't watch my cooldowns. Overall I am really enjoying Assassin though. It scales (in my experience/opinion) very well with gear.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absconditus View Post
    I do actually kill healers, not all of course, but the ones I kill are mainly due to Cloudy Poison and Anathema from the Infiltrator tree (as well as Foul Play of course). But a trade-off is that I can get kited fairly easy if I don't watch my cooldowns. Overall I am really enjoying Assassin though. It scales (in my experience/opinion) very well with gear.
    are you going 51 sin / 15 infli?

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    32 sin/15 infi/19 rs works for me. Worst problems I have while pvp'ing are that my dps is being outhealed, i'm getting cc'ed and i'm getting knocked back.

    15 points in infiltrator gets you Anathema, which can pretty much gimp your targets self healing. Those 15 points can be spent in increasing physical damage against players, increasing armour penetration or crit damage. Pardon the interruption seems to be very interesting as well, though need to rank high enough to get it. Break free remains on 5m cooldown tho, which is the main problem I have with it right now, but can live with that.

    19 in rs gets you +attack power, +endurance, +crit chance after plane shift and -damage taken, at least the way I use it. With 19 points in it you can get 3 plane shifts, which serve as gap closers when you get knocked back.

    32 sin is the least I can go with, its not optimal but it is enough. Can't go any higher anyway, since I want the other souls too.

    Now, when you want to kill a healer. Depends on luck as well, either you can open with paralyzing strike and make sure you put your snare on, and apply Anathema, and continue with puncture and impale. Or you can try your luck and open with jagged strike, then continue with Anathema, snare, puncture and impale, often the element of surprise makes the other guy panic and gives you a few precious seconds to apply all this, which will put high dots on him. Then just continue with the usual rotations, make sure he's snared all the time so he can't get out of range. If he does, just use shadow assault or shadow stalk to close the gap (and pray it won't bug out). Seriously, if you take down the guys healing with Anathema, you'll be surprised how fast he goes down. Of course, you can still apply foul play, slip away + paralyzing strike, or even blinding power to interrupt.

    I know that many people are pairing sin with nightblade or bladedancer, and probably they're getting better dps than I am. But currently the game is set up so that healing > dps, so better get some utility than pure dps, because it won't be enough.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by avariel View Post
    32 sin/15 infi/19 rs works for me. Worst problems I have while pvp'ing are that my dps is being outhealed, i'm getting cc'ed and i'm getting knocked back.

    15 points in infiltrator gets you Anathema, which can pretty much gimp your targets self healing. Those 15 points can be spent in increasing physical damage against players, increasing armour penetration or crit damage. Pardon the interruption seems to be very interesting as well, though need to rank high enough to get it. Break free remains on 5m cooldown tho, which is the main problem I have with it right now, but can live with that.

    19 in rs gets you +attack power, +endurance, +crit chance after plane shift and -damage taken, at least the way I use it. With 19 points in it you can get 3 plane shifts, which serve as gap closers when you get knocked back.

    32 sin is the least I can go with, its not optimal but it is enough. Can't go any higher anyway, since I want the other souls too.

    Now, when you want to kill a healer. Depends on luck as well, either you can open with paralyzing strike and make sure you put your snare on, and apply Anathema, and continue with puncture and impale. Or you can try your luck and open with jagged strike, then continue with Anathema, snare, puncture and impale, often the element of surprise makes the other guy panic and gives you a few precious seconds to apply all this, which will put high dots on him. Then just continue with the usual rotations, make sure he's snared all the time so he can't get out of range. If he does, just use shadow assault or shadow stalk to close the gap (and pray it won't bug out). Seriously, if you take down the guys healing with Anathema, you'll be surprised how fast he goes down. Of course, you can still apply foul play, slip away + paralyzing strike, or even blinding power to interrupt.

    I know that many people are pairing sin with nightblade or bladedancer, and probably they're getting better dps than I am. But currently the game is set up so that healing > dps, so better get some utility than pure dps, because it won't be enough.
    thank you on that post

  7. #7
    Cyo
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    Quote Originally Posted by avariel View Post
    32 sin/15 infi/19 rs works for me. Worst problems I have while pvp'ing are that my dps is being outhealed, i'm getting cc'ed and i'm getting knocked back.

    15 points in infiltrator gets you Anathema, which can pretty much gimp your targets self healing. Those 15 points can be spent in increasing physical damage against players, increasing armour penetration or crit damage. Pardon the interruption seems to be very interesting as well, though need to rank high enough to get it. Break free remains on 5m cooldown tho, which is the main problem I have with it right now, but can live with that.

    19 in rs gets you +attack power, +endurance, +crit chance after plane shift and -damage taken, at least the way I use it. With 19 points in it you can get 3 plane shifts, which serve as gap closers when you get knocked back.

    32 sin is the least I can go with, its not optimal but it is enough. Can't go any higher anyway, since I want the other souls too.

    Now, when you want to kill a healer. Depends on luck as well, either you can open with paralyzing strike and make sure you put your snare on, and apply Anathema, and continue with puncture and impale. Or you can try your luck and open with jagged strike, then continue with Anathema, snare, puncture and impale, often the element of surprise makes the other guy panic and gives you a few precious seconds to apply all this, which will put high dots on him. Then just continue with the usual rotations, make sure he's snared all the time so he can't get out of range. If he does, just use shadow assault or shadow stalk to close the gap (and pray it won't bug out). Seriously, if you take down the guys healing with Anathema, you'll be surprised how fast he goes down. Of course, you can still apply foul play, slip away + paralyzing strike, or even blinding power to interrupt.

    I know that many people are pairing sin with nightblade or bladedancer, and probably they're getting better dps than I am. But currently the game is set up so that healing > dps, so better get some utility than pure dps, because it won't be enough.
    This is a great post and sums up my findings as well. However, even with rotating Anathema, Foul Play, Blind (for interrupt) healers are still very difficult to kill unless they are very, very bad. I actually have more success as 32/32 sin/nb but that spec has no survivability and is really just for taking down healers.

    Also, just as a matter of opinion, I'd recommend 32 sin, 18 infiltrator, and 16 riftstalker. If you spec in the defensive side of infiltrator, this gives you very nice stun/damage reduction, 2 minute break free, and 3% run speed boost. The run speed is huge for me. I find kiting to be the most frustrating thing if I'm unable to land a malicious strike (and I refuse to open with paralyzing strike unless absolutely necessary as the DR absolutely kills Foul Play) due to latency or it just misses. Also, I find that my riftstalker teleports never put me in range of a kiting target to apply a snare. It makes me want to shoot somebody.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyo View Post
    This is a great post and sums up my findings as well. However, even with rotating Anathema, Foul Play, Blind (for interrupt) healers are still very difficult to kill unless they are very, very bad. I actually have more success as 32/32 sin/nb but that spec has no survivability and is really just for taking down healers.

    Also, just as a matter of opinion, I'd recommend 32 sin, 18 infiltrator, and 16 riftstalker. If you spec in the defensive side of infiltrator, this gives you very nice stun/damage reduction, 2 minute break free, and 3% run speed boost. The run speed is huge for me. I find kiting to be the most frustrating thing if I'm unable to land a malicious strike (and I refuse to open with paralyzing strike unless absolutely necessary as the DR absolutely kills Foul Play) due to latency or it just misses. Also, I find that my riftstalker teleports never put me in range of a kiting target to apply a snare. It makes me want to shoot somebody.
    I know what you're talking about. Especially HoT heals are annoying, as they are active even while stunned. Bah. Really, the game is biased towards healing right now, only huge burst dps + cc can reliably take down a healer. That we don't have, probably only warriors can do that now, and even not all of them. (EDIT: I mean regurarly murder em, destroy em, nuke em... pure dps way, not tire them down) My experience tells me that the setup and rotation I described can get me pretty close, but it's still not perfect.

    This is my build. I think At work now so can't check, made that just from what I remember, but been messing with builds a lot lately, so it might be inaccurate. You can see that I'm really not getting everything dps related (no final blow or savage strike improvement, no serrated blades), I'm more into utility. I hear what you're saying about the infiltrator soul, but it doesn't seem right for my playstyle. First, I consider the necessity to spend 5 points into Take Cover a waste. Otherwise the stun related things are nice, also lower cd on Break Free must be awesome. But really I like more the other end of the soul - everything that leads to Pardon the interruption. That skill itself looks just awesome, with some decent timing I'm sure it can do wonders. But I'm sure that your way to do it works too.
    Last edited by avariel; 03-21-2011 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Prior to level 50 you really stand NO chance against a healer unless you get a good opener. But if you are 50+ and you INSIST on running an assassin based gank build (admittedly a LOT more skill based than sab) you should try looking into a 51 / 15/ 0 (*** / infil/sab) spec. You go with 51 to get serpent which is a VERY nice burst when you need it. Here's how an average battle would go against a healer. Mind pois on one blade, leeching or something else on your other pois option.

    Expose weakness, open with 4s stun, anathema, puncture, impale, Malicious strike, foul play, backstab spam, final blow, slip away, then either assassinate or jagged strike.

    *note* You WILL crit a few times in there, serp strike whenever you do, the fact that it's uneffected by GCD is stupidly OP.

    If they're not dead by this point, toss out an adhesive charge since malicious will be wearing off, then just spam **** on them, they'll die soon to Anathema/bleeds if nothing else.

    Edit: Adhesive bomb, not charge.
    Last edited by Devalina; 03-21-2011 at 02:14 PM.

  10. #10
    Cyo
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    Quote Originally Posted by avariel View Post
    I know what you're talking about. Especially HoT heals are annoying, as they are active even while stunned. Bah. Really, the game is biased towards healing right now, only huge burst dps + cc can reliably take down a healer. That we don't have, probably only warriors can do that now, and even not all of them. (EDIT: I mean regurarly murder em, destroy em, nuke em... pure dps way, not tire them down) My experience tells me that the setup and rotation I described can get me pretty close, but it's still not perfect.

    This is my build. I think At work now so can't check, made that just from what I remember, but been messing with builds a lot lately, so it might be inaccurate. You can see that I'm really not getting everything dps related (no final blow or savage strike improvement, no serrated blades), I'm more into utility. I hear what you're saying about the infiltrator soul, but it doesn't seem right for my playstyle. First, I consider the necessity to spend 5 points into Take Cover a waste. Otherwise the stun related things are nice, also lower cd on Break Free must be awesome. But really I like more the other end of the soul - everything that leads to Pardon the interruption. That skill itself looks just awesome, with some decent timing I'm sure it can do wonders. But I'm sure that your way to do it works too.

    I've thought about going 15 offensive into infiltrator and I'll probably try your spec out tonight. I have to say, improved final blow is absolutely worth it. Even in my 32/32 sin/nb spec, I always used final blow as my finisher. It hits very hard (even harder on plate than the nb finishers) and is more than worth 3 points. In my opinion, Cruel Vengeance requires too many soul points to be worth the benefit. I also skipped serated blades because I don't like bleeds I can't control should I need to get off a full blind.

    We also agree on the wasted points in Take Cover. It's painful and I must have looked at my build for hours trying determine if a 2 minute break free + 3% run speed was worth the completely wasted 5 points. It's such a shame you can't cross paths in the pvp souls.

    I think you have an awesome build and I'd only change two things to suit my own personal preferences: Take 5 points out of Cruel Vengeance and move them to Imp Final Blow and Imp Savage strike (or one of the poision abilities) and take three points out of Shadow Mastery and put them into Focused Intent. Focused Intent works up to a 20% damage increase which seems very nice.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Looks like a plan too, I'll probably give it a shot. The only problem I can see with it is that you have only 1 gap closer, adhesive bomb. I know its cooldown is fairly short, but still it's only 1 skill, you have almost no room for errors. If you don't place it perfectly you can be kited for the next 15 seconds before the bomb comes off cooldown. But guess there's no perfect setup

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyo View Post
    I've thought about going 15 offensive into infiltrator and I'll probably try your spec out tonight. I have to say, improved final blow is absolutely worth it. Even in my 32/32 sin/nb spec, I always used final blow as my finisher. It hits very hard (even harder on plate than the nb finishers) and is more than worth 3 points. In my opinion, Cruel Vengeance requires too many soul points to be worth the benefit. I also skipped serated blades because I don't like bleeds I can't control should I need to get off a full blind.

    We also agree on the wasted points in Take Cover. It's painful and I must have looked at my build for hours trying determine if a 2 minute break free + 3% run speed was worth the completely wasted 5 points. It's such a shame you can't cross paths in the pvp souls.

    I think you have an awesome build and I'd only change two things to suit my own personal preferences: Take 5 points out of Cruel Vengeance and move them to Imp Final Blow and Imp Savage strike (or one of the poision abilities) and take three points out of Shadow Mastery and put them into Focused Intent. Focused Intent works up to a 20% damage increase which seems very nice.
    I agree that final blow is very nice, it's all about trading off. I wouldn't skip cruel vengeance, it's +10% damage on ALL skills for 10s after a crit, not only one finisher, which means it's up almost non-stop at 50. But 2 more points spent, yeah.

    Absolutely agree on serrated blades, random bleed is a bad idea. If at least the damage it does was worth it, but it isn't. Back in beta when it was 180% I would be considering it, not a chance now.

    Yeah it's pretty bad that you can't cross path in pvp soul. I personally can live without the speed boost, although it's nice. But I'm badly missing reduced break free cooldown. That skill is crucial to the whole soul, its improvement shouldn't be locked up into one path. That's just wrong.

    Actually taking points out of cruel vengeance and pumping them into final blow and savage strike was what I was considering too, and I'm aware it's one of the weaknessess of the build I linked. But then again, after giving it some thought I decided that tiering up cruel vengeance would do better to my overal dps. One of the reasons is that I'm having 2 points in advanced flanking as well, which means that most of my openers crit. And that means that probably every single skill after the initial opener will do 10% more damage, until the rest of the fight.

    One thing I forgot to mention is Stalker phase buff. 15% more damage after a plane shift is nothing to sniff at Sometimes I'm shifting even before I open, just to have that buff from the beginning. And then use it during the fight even when I'm not forced to.

    I'm happy if the build I linked gave you any new ideas, and will maybe improve your own style a bit. When you're done adjusting it, you can link the outcome so I could learn a thing or two as well Actually I must say that I'm enjoying a flameless discussion about builds for once

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    I would take Avariel's advice. He/she has become one of my greater enemies in warfronts. When Avariel is there I get my face rolled..lol. I salute you Avariel and I will be looking for you.../cheers!!!

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    What are people's thoughts as assassin going 12 into BD for the interrupt, sidestep, and sprint? That packs quite a punch to me.

  15. #15
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    BP PG is interrupt too, i can kill healers 1v1 without any problem (this same gear) but i am 13 infli /51 assasin. Anathema is very nice if u know when to use it. rember about slip away and this is next stun for u ;) 15 sec healers is dead.

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