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Thread: Rift barrier vs Cadence/rift guard

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Rift barrier vs Cadence/rift guard

    So I have been looking to spec out a riftstalker for tanking when my bard is not needed. Since I am leveling up the places I put my points matters since I won't have everything available to me. One thought that occurred is do I even (as in ever) need rift barrier if I have a rift/BD/bard?

    Here is my thinking.. my planar shifts have a range of 20 yards (or 15 for the first one). So yes.. you can shift and then have a guard up if you want to dump 4 points into 3/3 and 1/1 on getting it to absorb any damage type. My question is since rift guard is already set to absorb any damage type why not just pull with cadence. You have 3 combo points ready to go for rift guard right off the bat. You can still shift up to the mob if they are ranged or what not. For endgame I can maybe see how a ranged pull might not be desireable but for most sub-50 is there a reason to dump 4 points into rift barrier set vs just pulling with cadence and throwing up rift guard?

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    You are on the right track.

    The only real reasons for the 4 points in rift barrier is for when you flash in and for the hp gained via improved guardian phase.

    For leveling up, its more then fine to ignore it.

  3. #3
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    I find rift barrier a godsend in experts, gives me that little extra time to get combos up for rest of defences.

    But yeah for leveling up purposes its fine to disregard it for something else.

  4. #4
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    If you don't phase shift to the mob, then Rift Barrier has no use. If you do phase shift, you have one of two scenarios:

    With Rift Barrier:

    0 seconds: Shadow Blitz
    1 seconds: Guarded Steel
    2 seconds: Phantom Blow
    3 seconds: Rift Guard

    Without Rift Barrier:

    0 seconds: Shadow Blitz
    1 seconds: Rift Guard
    2 seconds: Phantom Blow
    3 seconds: Guarded Steel

    So, what do you lose by not having Rift Barrier? In that first second of combat, you are not protected by any of your buffs. But after that, you have Rift Guard up. With 36 points in RS, Rift Guard will absorb 27.5% of all incoming damage, up to 135% of your HP. Rift Barrier only absorbs 15% up to 60% of your HP.

    Guarded Steel increases your armor by 30%. How much mitigation is that, actually? I doubt it's 12.5%, which is the difference between Rift Barrier and Rift Guard with 36 points in RS, though it would be interesting if a level 50 could post the actual numbers.

    So, a 1 combo point Rift Guard > Rift Barrier + Guarded Steel

    The more points you put into RS, the more the equation tips towards Rift Guard. If you put 47 points into RS (all but Rift Barrier), Rift Guard will absorb 33% up to 190% of your HP for 1 combo point.

    The beauty of Rift Guard and Guarded Steel is that they are nearly as good with 1 combo point as they are with 5. The amount of combo points only affects the duration of Guarded Steel, not the strength, so you can put up a 1 CB Guarded Steel, then you have 12 seconds to refresh it. And 5 combo points for Rift Guard doesn't change the amount of each attack that you absorb, it only adds to the total amount that can be absorbed. So if you had 47 points in RS, a 5 CB Rift Guard would absorb 33% up to 230% of your HP. It still lasts 30 seconds either way. That 40% isn't really a big difference, especially if you are going to refresh RG before the 30 seconds is up anyway.

    Other than that, skipping Rift Barrier would cost you 4% Endurance, 2% absorb up to 20% of your HP on Rift Guard, and you can't get Scatter the Shadows. Are those things worth more to you than whatever you can get with those 4 points in some other soul? That's up to you.

  5. #5
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    Issue with 1 pointing some of those stuff is that it can become very iffy keeping them up

    1 point guarded steel may be maintainable but what if you have false blades to get up as well? or need to run over and nab an extra mob? or get stunned?

    And 1 point rift guard will go down FAST (only absorbs 2k damage so most expert mobs will break it down in about 4 hits)

    so I go:

    0: blitz/assault
    1: rift disturbance
    2-4: Phantom Blow x3
    5: Planar Strike
    6: Guarded Steel
    7+8: Planar
    9: Rift Disturbance
    10-12: Planar
    13: Rift guard

    after that its a mix of phantom blow, planar strike, false blade and then just buff maintenance.

    Doing some testing now:

    Against a mathosian hunting hound in still moor:

    Regular hits against unbuffed (37.31% armour mitigation): 64
    against rift barrier only: 52-54
    against rift guard only: 41-44
    against guarded steel only (42.37% armour mit): 58-60
    against gs+rb: 48-51
    against gs+rg: 39-41

    Rift barrier does not match up with Rift guard, but that was clear from the base numbers, however it is a fairly significant reduction for 15 seconds at the start of the battle to allow you to set up your heavier defenses so they'll actually last longer than a hit or two.

    my rift barrier absorbs 4.5k damage a 1 point rift guard absorbs only 2.3k, and against things like akala the desert queen a 5 point rift guard (absorbing around 12-13k) lasts about 10-15 seconds.
    Last edited by Dasorine; 03-15-2011 at 06:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Well the question I have was is rift barrier worth the 4 points invested into it? Other then the initial phase shifting where is it used? If you shift in a battle you probably already have rift guard up so barrier won't take effect. And for pulls why bother with the 4 points into it when you could just cadence pull and have a 3 point rift guard up before the mobs get to you. I can maybe see some use where you really need to tank the mobs at their spawn or such but it just seems like a lot of points to dump into the tree for something that doesn't really need to be used. Maybe I just am looking at it wrong and will notice a difference as I level.

    *edit* On that thought to.. does overhealing give you aggro since you would in effect be overhealing your entire party which should give you aggro for every mob on the pull
    Last edited by Zedia; 03-15-2011 at 06:54 AM.

  7. #7
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    Because cadence pull is low threat, and single target.

    Rift barrier not only gives you 15% reduction at start of the battle but also gives you better hp and more reduction when rift guard is up.

    Also cadence wont even heal unless you put soul points into it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasorine View Post
    Issue with 1 pointing some of those stuff is that it can become very iffy keeping them up

    1 point guarded steel may be maintainable but what if you have false blades to get up as well? or need to run over and nab an extra mob? or get stunned?
    I didn't mean to suggest that you would use nothing but 1 point Rift Guards and Guarded Steels, just on the initial pull. After that, you'll want to use more CBs for the energy savings as well as the increased time on Guarded Steel, and the increase to max on Rift Guard.

    And 1 point rift guard will go down FAST (only absorbs 2k damage so most expert mobs will break it down in about 4 hits)
    Completely false. If you have Imp Rift Guard (if you don't, lol), and you have 36 points in RS, Rift Guard will absorb 27.5% up to 135% of your HP with only 1 combo point.

    A 1 CB Rift Guard gives 10% to max. Imp Rift Guard gives 25% to max, plus 5% per point spent after 16. So at 36 points in RS, that's:

    20 * 5% = 100%
    100% + 25% + 10% = 135%

    so I go:

    0: blitz/assault
    1: rift disturbance
    2-4: Phantom Blow x3
    5: Planar Strike
    6: Guarded Steel
    7+8: Planar
    9: Rift Disturbance
    10-12: Planar
    13: Rift guard

    after that its a mix of phantom blow, planar strike, false blade and then just buff maintenance.
    So, for the first 6 seconds of the fight, the only thing you have up is Rift Barrier and 3 phantom blows. That's 21% mitigation.

    If you did what I suggested, you'd have at least 27.5% absorb after 1 second and whatever mitigation Guarded Steel adds after 3 seconds. Within 6 seconds I'll still have 3 phantom blows up. The only point at which your rotation "wins" is the 1st second of the fight, where you have 15% absorb and I have 0, assuming I don't still have Rift Guard up from the last fight.

    Try testing with 1 CB Rift Guards vs. Rift Barrier and tell me what the difference is.
    Last edited by Absalon; 03-15-2011 at 07:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absalon View Post
    A 1 CB Rift Guard gives 10% to max. Imp Rift Guard gives 25% to max, plus 5% per point spent after 16. So at 36 points in RS, that's:

    20 * 5% = 100%
    100% + 25% + 10% = 135%
    Please do not spread false information, this is not how it works.

    % does not add up at all like that.

    1 CP = 10%
    With 36 points in RF you'll have 100%+25% more of 10%, which is 12.5% + 10% = 22,5% of your HP.

    If you dont believe me, just watch the tooltip of Rift Guard, apply my formula, and you'll find the exact tooltip number.

    check here and the discussions following : http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...=1#post1602237
    Last edited by Sitar; 03-15-2011 at 07:19 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser
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    Rift barrier kinda blows, however due to imp guardian phase and imp rift guard, every point in RS tree is 1% end and .5% mitigation. So in the end it is more then worth it. It is nothing but a convenience skill for trash, anyone who relies on it to pull touch bosses is horrible tank and deserve to die in 2 shots. For tough bosses just duel a healer get your stuff up and pull. But trash in experts it would take too long so barrier helps out.

    That said for lvling purpose it doesn't matter much. Feel free to skip it.
    Last edited by Deathfairy; 03-15-2011 at 07:21 AM.

  11. #11
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    have you actually got to 50 and tried any of that out?

    a 1 point rift guard right now gives me 2.3k absorbs 35% of all in coming damage.

    Mobs hit pre absorbs for aroun 2-3k damage, it does not take long for them to tear through a 1 point guard at all.

    Also with your attack queue for the first part of the fight your still going to be scrambling to get your defences up, all the while mobs could be going haywire attacking people and such.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Even if you believe a Cadence pull is best, you won't always get that pull off. Some bosses have a >20m aggro radius. Some will start nuking you right off the bat. Others won't be attackable right away, so they will already be charging you when you'd start Cadence. Still others will already be in melee range when the fight starts. Boss pulls can be incredibly varied as anyone who has raided for an extended period of time with multiple games can attest to.

    By the way, the same could be said for any particular style of pulling.
    Faeblight - Defiant: Ghaeleah, Eladria, Mala, Danoria, Azshannya
    Estrael - Guardian: Reah, Shilania, Kethrah, Tulania, Azshannya

  13. #13
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    I mean as long as you control the agro and get your defences up it doesn't matter what you build for, but rift barrier isn't quite as useless as it may seem.

    Unlike defer death! :P

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sitar View Post
    Please do not spread false information, this is not how it works.

    % does not add up at all like that.

    1 CP = 10%
    With 36 points in RF you'll have 100%+25% more of 10%, which is 12.5% + 10% = 22,5% of your HP.

    If you dont believe me, just watch the tooltip of Rift Guard, apply my formula, and you'll find the exact tooltip number.

    check here and the discussions following : http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...=1#post1602237
    Hmm, ok. I haven't actually parsed the numbers, that was just my understanding (or misunderstanding if that is in fact correct). I guess that actually makes more sense since the extra 40% from 5 CBs would otherwise be arbitrary.

    The question then is, what is the make or break point of Rift Guard? If you do a 2 CB Rift Guard, that would be 45%, right? And 3 CBs would be 67.5%.

    Assuming you put 47 points into RS, 1 CB would give you 29%, 2 CB would give you 58% and 3 would give you 87%.

    So 2 CBs would give you roughly the same max as Barrier, though it wouldn't last as long because you'd be mitigating more damage per attack (33% vs 15%).

    I still don't think Rift Barrier is THAT useful, but I can see that it is more useful than I thought it was, since it will take longer to get a better Rift Guard up.

  15. #15
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    yeah a 2 point rg is around same as rift barrier but more absorption per hit.

    against a lot of trash thats the most you'd really need but there are big hitters that really need a 5 point guard up asap, rift barrier eases the set up for that (or could rift prison them to get the points up on em first).

    Dont forget if you do go a full 51 point rs not only will you be getting the better guard and the rift barrier when you warp, but higher crit rate, a few seconds stun immunity (godsend) and some movement speed to help set up the start of the fight.

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