Assassin damage needs to be toned down.

[Zantetsuken]

You just dont get it do you, SIN is a offensive soul, BD is not. Yes sin is built to stealth and KILL ONE TARGET fast, then get back in stealth. I never said SIN had the best DPS output, its actually farthest from the truth, NB by far beats SIN in DPS. Once again l2p and learn the classes before tou spout BS.
Yes BD is more for AOE targets and built for dodge, you cant compare them to champion thats a totally diffrent soul, plus champ is a offensive warrior soul as well.
If you dont know what your talkin about plz ****, i hate people who cry nerf about **** they dont know about.

Play a VK/RB during beta by any chance?

BD is hardly a defensive soul, you're confusing it with riftstalker. It is an offensive soul built around toe-to-toe melee combat, ie being able to stand and fight, and subsequently becomes MORE dangerous when directly attacked. Notice the emphasis on MORE. As it stands they aren't dangerous enough when they aren't receiving melee attacks, and barely dangerous enough when they are. Assassin on the other hand is doing much more damage regardless of being targeted or not, and in the case of scoring a kill in 5 secs, too much damage while needing minimal skill on the players part.

So when BDs are playing to their strengths, but are doing lower damage than an Assassin that can kill faster and thus take less damage in toe-to-toe melee combat without even using an opener, you think this is how it should be?

Sorry, but I cant help thinking all of you people, who instead of presenting rational counter arguments (although some of you have) are instead resorting to insults are in the same league as all the bad warriors who rolled VK during beta because it was the only way they could own in PvP. There is nothing wrong with defending your favorite class/spec, but getting hysterical when someone suggests nerfing it makes it hard to take you seriously as skilled and intelligent players.

[Koe]

BD is hardly a defensive soul,

More defensive than assassin, and thus should not get the damage.

[Koe]

P.S.

Stop ignoring my posts.

[Zantetsuken]

P.S.

Stop ignoring my posts.

Sorry, wasn't meaning to be rude. The problem with BD in terms of defense, is that a high dodge chance does nothing vs casters (which does nothing for damage either as they don't melee, unless they have a melee pet feeding you lol) and you gain nothing from it while stunned. Whichever way you look at it, both specs need RS if they want to toe-to-toe for any period of time unless they have extensive healing.

Avoidance based tanking just isn't very good, as you still need to be able to take the hits that do get through. A champion can stun you on a charge and get a TS crit off which you cant avoid, and even if you did (with no points in Overrun), you proc IS and take a (100% > 30% crit chance, happy with that Trion) sometimes big hit. Don't get me wrong, I think Champs need their burst toned down as well, they are too dangerous with a healer, the only saving grace is after they unleash their off-GCD attacks they are usually starved of power for a few secs putting them in wet noodle territory.

As I said earlier, my gut feeling is that BD damage is too low given it's survival, whereas Sin is too high given it's indefinite stealth and 100% movement speed. But it's a moot point anyway, as apparently Sin's damage is low at 50, give me a few days and I should be there to test it for myself.

[AsiagoRanch]

Hi, I play a sin, lv 44 45 in a few min, I have a bladedancer soul for awhile and ...... its hard as hell to gank a blade dancer same level unless I get really really lucky and he doesn't dodge all my stuff. Can't bleed or stun without those hit connecting onto the target, standing there fighting him head on is death in a few sec. Although there is a way around that "use slip away after he blew his evasion buff, it has 2 min cd" and come back for more. As for pve, I can take 3-4 mobs with bd no problem, and I spect RS for free heals so I have really low down time, compare to sin stealth after 10 sec cd ect .... but on single target sin killl really fast with that bleed. No nerf plz dmg on sin is terrible, cant mess with those riftblade or clerics ;(


ps: stealth is terrible in this game, too easily detected, so saying "best" stealth doesnt mean much, maybe for pve on lower level mob, but higher or same detect really fast, same with pvp, if the guy is 1 level above sin, im getting detected 10 meter in unless I hit that 4 sec buff and pray it works.

[Maderas]

The biggest Final Blow crit I've seen at 50 was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1720 with Blade Rhythm up. One of my friends was in a warfront a couple days ago and got crit by a level 35 Champion for 1830 with Titan's Strike.

I've seen level 43 warriors with upwards of 4200 HP.

Rogue melee damage of any type does not need to be nerfed right now.

[Soulripper]

oh. my. god. there are soooo so so so many things wrong with most of the OP's statements it hurts me to read this without reply, and even though I told myself i wouldn't this is just pure torture, so here goes...

Hmm, do I not? I killed a level 34 mage earlier in 5 seconds, 2.3k health dropped before he even had a chance to respond. You think that is the way a stealth class should be? If other classes/specs had the same burst (champion does, but that is for another thread), you guys would be ****ting bricks about any sort of PvP that wasn't 1v1.

Granted, 1v1 means nothing, but this is the reason all the bad players are playing Assassin, it is stupidly easy to kill people, unless you are really bad at it. It really doesn't take any skill at all, as more often than not they are dead before they have a chance to react, unless they know you are there. Tanks of course take a little longer, but it is still easy.

I mean come on, this is starting to resemble the VK bug threads where people were actually defending Discharge spam, unbelievable.

WOW are you serious? are you.. no really, are you serious? like what?! a mage. a paper wearing mage. well congratuf*ckinglations! but besides the point, have you ever played a saboteur by any chance? ever tried? how bout this, have you ever been murdered by a 4k crit from a saboteur? no? well I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on that one... wait a minute, nah nvm that thread would probably be started with a 1000 word rant on sabs.

Ok, answer me this. When a BD is attacking a mob that is being tanked by someone else (you know, PvE style), how much damage do they lose? Outside of CD rotating, most of which come at > 30 points in the tree, BD sustained damage is low, at least at the mid 30 range. Assassin on the other hand, is far too high.

AoE capability isn't a strong enough argument, 2 mobs with builders and 3 with the finisher isn't particularly strong, and can easily be beaten by other classes. Single target will be even worse in the absence of dodge/parry damage increases, unless it scales mightily with the 15% dex talent.

And since when is 33 less than half of 50?

OMG did he just say "Assassin on the other hand, is far too high." ?????? did I read that correctly? If and when you have played an assassin for 30 levels like I have you figure out, that assassin is ALL. ABOUT. BURST. there is absolutely NOTHING, let me repeat N.O.T.H.I.N.G. in that tree for sustained damage. why? well because assassin relies completely on the 15% damage boost after JS and guess what? you can only use JS in stealth! OMG no way! as soon as that 10 - 15 seconds are up half your damage goes down the drain and up a crocodiles buttcrack. yeah so gl using your OP sustained damage from assassin for 5 mins on a boss fight.

AoE. Really? Builder hits 2 mobs, finisher hits 3. Now compare that to Champion, builder hits 3, talented to 5, finisher hits 6, talented to 8. Does that mean Champions are AoE specialists? You wouldn't say they have great single target sustained and burst damage?

Or is it the 31 point ability on a 2 min CD that makes BD the AoE masterclass in your eyes?

Sin's strength isn't single target, just because they don't have any AoE doesn't make them single target specialists. Their strength is the best stealth in the game, which is useless in PvE most of the time. So expecting them to have the best melee dps output as well when the rogue class already has a sustained melee damage spec sounds more like you want to be OP in PvP as opposed to on par in PvE.

here we go again, where please tell me, WHERE are you getting your information for assassin being SUSTAINED damage? please I would like to know this assassin and praise him for being my hero in spite of impossible odds (quite literally) being THE. BEST. single AND aoe SUSTAINED. melee dps.

Hi, I play a sin, lv 44 45 in a few min, I have a bladedancer soul for awhile and ...... its hard as hell to gank a blade dancer same level unless I get really really lucky and he doesn't dodge all my stuff. Can't bleed or stun without those hit connecting onto the target, standing there fighting him head on is death in a few sec. Although there is a way around that "use slip away after he blew his evasion buff, it has 2 min cd" and come back for more. As for pve, I can take 3-4 mobs with bd no problem, and I spect RS for free heals so I have really low down time, compare to sin stealth after 10 sec cd ect .... but on single target sin killl really fast with that bleed. No nerf plz dmg on sin is terrible, cant mess with those riftblade or clerics ;(


ps: stealth is terrible in this game, too easily detected, so saying "best" stealth doesnt mean much, maybe for pve on lower level mob, but higher or same detect really fast, same with pvp, if the guy is 1 level above sin, im getting detected 10 meter in unless I hit that 4 sec buff and pray it works.

OMG FINALLY!!!! a BREAKTHROUGH!!!! someone who actually knows what they're talking about! hats off to you my friend because you are absolutely 100% right! blade dancers are a melee counter in PvP! what you wanted to be able to effectively counter half of the PvP players but also have the same capabilities against the other half? wow l2 charge > keen > quick > FB imo.

plus if you're putting EVERY. SINGLE. POINT. into BD that's kind of weird but hey w.e floats your boat that's what this game is about but still... I would consider putting some points into other trees for stuns, interrupts, ranged attacks etc,. the world is your oyster and rogues are the most versatile class in the game at this point in time.

at 50 Gl killing someone in 5 seconds, and as soon as your stun is up, you're dead because they would: kick you away, snare, stun, teleport, heal and whatnot. So yeah, if your experience is going from mob to mob burning them down in 5 seconds or less while taking minimal damage congrats! but it doesn't mean much at all, wait till you get into dungeons/heavy end level PvP when people actually have time to complete their builds and then talk, I'm 99.9% sure you will find that assassin damage is way below par like the rest of us.

Bladedancer is therefore a melee counter if specced right, or an extremely efficient soloing build (which is what most people would use it for) personally I love keen strike, quick strike and precision strike (best fillers) and that is why I keep the 16 points in it, other than that meh

bottom line is that Assassin is definitely not the best PvE spec for rogues and by far not the best PvP spec for rogues. All in all it's a nice bursty build with a wonderful 17 point +20% crit damage bonus and some neat stealth tricks excelling primarily in soloing and ganking unaware clothies.

[phoenixfire82]

Why do you think your heavily aoe oriented soul (BD) should compete with pure single target (Sin) dmg, on a single target? I think assassin should destroy BD in single target damage, unfortunately that's not the case, and they're within about 50 dps of each other based on my tests. BD can spike 3-5k dps on aoe pulls, sin does the same damage as it would on any other pull. Wah.

[Blainne]

Are you kidding me?.. go 50 first before make such ridicelous statement, assassins dmg at lvl 50 need to be upgraded.. PEOPLE SHOULD GO 50 first before whining like ****.

+1

LoL. Yes lets nerf the Assassins... so the Champions can pawns us dead a bit faster than they already do.

[Xks]

Your entire argument is pointless. All your rebuttals to everyone explaining why its ignorant are ignorant.

You pick 2 souls out of the rogue tree and start whining about damage basically randomly.

Here is my example of your post.

I played bard until about level 30 at which point I switched to marksman. MM takes less damage and kills faster. I think MM damage needs to be balanced to equal bard.

See how that makes no sense? Probably not. I guess I will standby for a long post where you try to explain yourself away. And fail.

[Elewyth]

Erm, where in that first line does it say I'm 16? After the part where I state I'm now level 33?

Learn to read before posting, then learn to play, so you can have a go at the other souls and not lose in PvP

Seriously, never seen so many people **** themselves at the thought of a damage nerf.

Assassins arent going to be nerfed anytime soon.
theyre balanced. against a lvl 36 (im 33) i took him down in 6 hits with a big assasinate crit of 900.

against tanks or healers, i just dont bother any more, its like ramming your **** into a beehive, sure you get the first bit nice and honey like, then you get the **** kicked out of you cos they hit hard than you.

[AsiagoRanch]

Assassins arent going to be nerfed anytime soon.
theyre balanced. against a lvl 36 (im 33) i took him down in 6 hits with a big assasinate crit of 900.

against tanks or healers, i just dont bother any more, its like ramming your **** into a beehive, sure you get the first bit nice and honey like, then you get the **** kicked out of you cos they hit hard than you.

I agree with the beehive shenanigan, it sure is nice and honey like at first, but after that people just pee all over you. Also, with the other guy above, the damage bonus only last for like 10 seconds, but if they outlive that 4 sec stab stun and another 4 sec kick stun " if it hits" its over, warriors can kill sin with like half health, *their half is like sin's full health anyway*, and cleric remove all the bleeds instantly then full heal ect... btw have you tried fighting champion or shielded warriors? or has only tested bd and sin.