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Thread: Backstab damage seems weak

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Backstab damage seems weak

    I feel like the damage this ability does is extremely weak compared to other abilities. It requires 16 points total in the sin tree to get this ability. It has a positional requirement and only one talent actually buffs this ability (+6% crit from Advanced Flanking). What is the point of even getting this ability if the bladedancer soul gets one just like it without a positional requirement?


    Backstab:
    Attacks the enemy from behind, dealing weapon plus 101 to 105 Physical damage. Must be behind the enemy. An additional 50% damage bonus from Attack Power is applied to this attack. Awards 1 Combo Point.

    Quick Strike:
    A fast offhand attack that deals weapon plus 101 to 105 Physical damage. Usable only after a Keen Strike attack. An additional 50% damage bonus from Attack Power is applied to this attack. Awards 1 Combo Point.

    Main difference obviously is that quick strike requires keen strike to be used beforehand. I have no experience at high end sin so I really don't have much to go on here besides what zam's soul calculator has. I feel like backstab should be doing a bit more damage though than what it does now.

  2. #2
    snc
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    300-500 dmg at lvl 50 depending on armor. It's no warrior dps.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    I've crit for ~230 at level 30, for a combo point generating move its pretty good.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    I'm in agreement that BS needs to be buffed, but that being said you're leaving something out.

    Compare BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS to KS>QS>KS>QS>KS>QS>KS>QS...

    Get my point? Every other attack has to be a keen strike, which does less damage, so ultimately BS should do more...and with advanced flanking should crit more.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara Ashnazg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planbee View Post
    I feel like the damage this ability does is extremely weak compared to other abilities. It requires 16 points total in the sin tree to get this ability. It has a positional requirement and only one talent actually buffs this ability (+6% crit from Advanced Flanking). What is the point of even getting this ability if the bladedancer soul gets one just like it without a positional requirement?


    Backstab:
    Attacks the enemy from behind, dealing weapon plus 101 to 105 Physical damage. Must be behind the enemy. An additional 50% damage bonus from Attack Power is applied to this attack. Awards 1 Combo Point.

    Quick Strike:
    A fast offhand attack that deals weapon plus 101 to 105 Physical damage. Usable only after a Keen Strike attack. An additional 50% damage bonus from Attack Power is applied to this attack. Awards 1 Combo Point.

    Main difference obviously is that quick strike requires keen strike to be used beforehand. I have no experience at high end sin so I really don't have much to go on here besides what zam's soul calculator has. I feel like backstab should be doing a bit more damage though than what it does now.
    Save yourself the pain, use quick strike / keen strike combo in PvP. In PvE - use backstab if you have it, or use the talent point for something else.

  6. #6
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    I'm in agreement that BS needs to be buffed, but that being said you're leaving something out.

    Compare BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS>BS to KS>QS>KS>QS>KS>QS>KS>QS...

    Get my point? Every other attack has to be a keen strike, which does less damage, so ultimately BS should do more...and with advanced flanking should crit more.
    Yea I get that but even still the fact that the damage is actually equal for the two abilities just irks me a little bit. I dunno I just feel like bs damage should be higher considering how many more points are invested for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashnazg View Post
    Save yourself the pain, use quick strike / keen strike combo in PvP. In PvE - use backstab if you have it, or use the talent point for something else.
    I figured that might be the case in a pvp environment (if I ended up using these two souls).

    Still though, at level 50 only doing up to 500 dmg, non crit I'm guessing, seems a bit low after seeing how much I'm getting hit for at level 25 on my rogue.
    Last edited by Planbee; 03-03-2011 at 11:36 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by snc View Post
    300-500 dmg at lvl 50 depending on armor. It's no warrior dps.
    But warriors have no survivability like rogues....

    Yeah, that made you cry....

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    I think the crit bonus you get for spending MORE points is the only reason you might use BS.
    Last edited by Ravenshroud; 03-03-2011 at 11:37 AM.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
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    Oh, one thing I left out is that to help with the positional requirement you should simply make a macro.

    /cast savage strike
    /cast backstab

    That way if BS fails, it will do SS. Yes, that is less damage if BS fails, but you'd be amazed how easy it is to get backstabs...when you attack people, 90% of them try to escape instead of fighting back, especially if they are alone...snare them and just run along behind them spamming BS.

    IMHO, BS should add 100% of AP and ignore 25% of armor though. Anyone who lets an assassin stand behind them spamming backstab deserves a VERY swift death...
    Last edited by Calo; 03-03-2011 at 11:39 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calo View Post
    Oh, one thing I left out is that to help with the positional requirement you should simply make a macro.

    /cast savage strike
    /cast backstab

    That way if BS fails, it will do SS. Yes, that is less damage if BS fails, but you'd be amazed how easy it is to get backstabs...when you attack people, 90% of them try to escape instead of fighting back, especially if they are alone...snare them and just run along behind them spamming BS.

    IMHO, BS should add 100% of AP and ignore 25% of armor though...
    I agree that BS should have a higher AP value or add an armor ignore or just both.

    Saboteur blast charge does more damage than BS just due to all the talents that sab gets for increasing the damage of blast charge.

    Blast charge base damage is the same as BS but no 50% ap boost on it. Difference is that they get a 25% increase on damage dealt by blast charge and also a 50% armor ignore on it.

    Also, shouldn't the macro be:

    /cast backstab
    /cast savage strike

    This way it'll go for backstab first and if it can't it'll do savage strike. With the way you had it, it would always cast savage strike lol.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched ralinsilver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashnazg View Post
    Save yourself the pain, use quick strike / keen strike combo in PvP. In PvE - use backstab if you have it, or use the talent point for something else.
    Why not both? if your gonna have both soul tree's set up a macro

    Cast backstab
    Cast quick strike
    Cast Keen Strike

    If your behind them it will backstab / if your infront it will quick strick when it can or at worst keen strike.

    That way you can maximize your damage from all angles.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planbee View Post

    Also, shouldn't the macro be:

    /cast backstab
    /cast savage strike

    This way it'll go for backstab first and if it can't it'll do savage strike. With the way you had it, it would always cast savage strike lol.
    Yes, sorry I am working on a few things at once and not thinking straight hehe. Will correct when edit limit is up.

    *EDIT* Well, NM...after posting this it won't let me edit that ;) Good catch anyway!
    Last edited by Calo; 03-03-2011 at 11:43 AM.

  12. #12
    Xsi
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    You need to reverse the cast order of the macro but yes, that works.

    Edit: Beaten to it
    Last edited by Xsi; 03-03-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Ashnazg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralinsilver View Post
    Why not both? if your gonna have both soul tree's set up a macro

    Cast backstab
    Cast quick strike
    Cast Keen Strike

    If your behind them it will backstab / if your infront it will quick strick when it can or at worst keen strike.

    That way you can maximize your damage from all angles.
    When I played in Beta, it was impossible to make that macro work. Reason being that other skills that used "checks" were actually disabled until the check was made, so a macro like that was possible for keen / quick strike, for instance. Backstab, however, was never "disabled", just not usable if you weren't behind the target, so trying to use a macro like that always returned the same error - This skill requires you to be behind the target - without proceeding to the next target (incidentally, one of blademaster's skills, riposte, i believe, had the same problem. It would not let you proceed down the macro list because it always said: "requires you to dodge first", or w/e).

    I think that was in beta6. If its fixed by now (I picked a mage in retail), then sure, use a macro like that.
    Last edited by Ashnazg; 03-03-2011 at 11:58 AM.

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