+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Comparison between Bard and Assassin builds (level 25)

  1. #1
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default Comparison between Bard and Assassin builds (level 25)

    Hello all,

    I have two specs, and I've been doing some comparisons.

    I have a Safe and very survivable Bard/Ranger spec. It's tough to die with this spec, and I always felt it did a fair amount of damage while leveling and was viable.

    Then I decided to play around with a Assassin/Riftstalker spec, both level 26. The specs aren't exactly geared for All out DPS, or all out Survival etc. They are just general leveling.

    What I found was that while the As/RS spec felt dicey in combat, it did a lot more Damage Per Second to opponents.

    The final proof, though, would be in how this increased DPS translates to leveling speed, which is how quickly you kill mobs for questing, open world grinding etc.

    The end result is that yes, that increased DPS does equal faster kill times. By more than 50% faster actually.

    The average encounter with the As/RS spec took about 12 seconds or 15 seconds on mobs.
    The average encounter with the same type of mobs on the Bd/Rng spec took 40, maybe 37 seconds.
    Code:
    Bard Spec numbers:
            DPS    Average    Crit %    To Hit %
    Coda of Fury    39.54    171.33    0%    100
    Coda of Wrath    31.5    186.34    19%    97.92
    Cadence        30.85    40.67    17%    95.74
    Code:
    As/RS Spec numbers:
     
            DPS    Average    Crit    To HIt
    Final Blow      56.44    215.19    6%    100
    Savage Strike    46.28    79.17    30%    93.83
    Fiery Spike     20.76    34.21    21%    94.59
    Puncture        14.58    31.53    24%    98
    Lethal Poison    8.08    23.03    0%    100
    Serrated Blades    7.79    12.18    0%    100
    Leeching Poison    7.25    22.07    0%    100
    Guarded Steel    0    197    0%    100
    The two mainstays of my attack rotations in the Assassin build are a lot higher than the Cadence/Coda of Wrath combo of the Bard.

    But let's look at another series of numbers. Healing.
    The As/RS spec has a skill called Rift Scavenger which gives you a fixed % of health for each combo point that is on the enemy when it dies.Assassin also has Leech Poison, which heals you for about 40+ health when you hit an opponent. The trick is, that you need to LEAVE combo points on your enemy in order to get the strong heal from Rift Scavenger. As we know, the whole point of combat is to build combos and then burn them with powerful finishers. So by leaving combos on the mob you aren't exactly killing them as quickly as possible.

    Now the Bard is a much simpler proposition. Cadence returns about the same amount of health each tick, each and every time it fires. Then of course you have your Motif of Regeneration and your Coda of Restoration. Essentially the bard is a lot more survivable and for less effort.

    OVerall, the As/RS feels more active, and is a bit more exciting.
    The Bard/Ranger feels slower, but a lot safer with more options for grouping.

    Just some info if you were as curious as I was about how all this DPS talk translates in-game.

    AS/RS http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MMp_.MVRcx0b.VG0h
    Bard/Ranger http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M_cN..Ec0M0qoz.E
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Comparison between Bard and Assassin builds (level 25)-2011-03-02_181926.jpg   Comparison between Bard and Assassin builds (level 25)-2011-03-02_181937.jpg  
    Last edited by gel214th; 03-02-2011 at 02:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Wheeler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    226

    Default

    I have my main Sab/NB/RS build that I have been using for PvE'ing/leveling, PvP'ing, and PvE in instances with very good AoE and DPS.

    I also have a bard/ranger/RS, and it just simply cannot touch the dps capabilities of the first.

    Just all comes down to what I need to do/what I am fighting.
    Wheeler
    Exiled Guild
    Roguey Extraordinaire of Sunrest

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    5

    Default

    I have similar builds and found about the same thing (no parser here though). With my assassin build, I can stealth and do paralyzing strike, 3 backstabs, final blow and often the mob is either dead or very close to dead. Keeping it stunned most of the time I hardly take any damage. I still keep my Bard role for grouping/rifting as I enjoy that more in larger groups. Proper positioning for assassin can be more difficult in groups as well.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    284

    Default

    is all that just a complicated way to tell us faster killing=faster leveling?

    Brilliant!

  5. #5
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafkin_Yscar View Post
    is all that just a complicated way to tell us faster killing=faster leveling?

    Brilliant!
    No it doesn't really. If you kill things faster and then spend time regaining health, or dieing a lot. Faster killing <> faster leveling necessarily.
    You CAN have little downtime with the As/ RS spec, but you need to play in what is perhaps a counterintuitive way by leaving combo points up. ...so you aren't really Killing as quickly as you could by doing that.

  6. #6
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default

    I tried a hybrid between Bard/Bladedancer.

    This build actually kills about as fast as the previous Assassin build, but with less fuss and more survivability.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M_cV..EI0q00Rz.E

    You can use Cadence all the way through, and then use Deadly Strike as your finisher. If you are facing more than one opponent, use Compound Attack as your finisher.

    Your Motif of Regeneration gives you about 60 health at this level, which is quite a bit when paired with the heals from Cadence.

    Going in with Keen Strike, Quick Strike, Keen Strike, Quick Strike, Keen Strike, Deadly Strike nets you about 10 more dps than using Cadence - Deadlystrike but for all that extra DPS you don't mow through the mobs that much more quickly.

    Here is an average parse with Cadence/ Deadly Strike
    Code:
    TYPE           DAMAGE  EXT DPS  DPS    AVERAGE  MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRIT %  SWINGS  TO HIT %  
    All            1,533   73.00    73.00  54.75    10       242      All       28      0%      28      100.00    
    Deadly Strike  759     36.14    47.44  189.75   52       242      Physical  4       0%      4       100.00    
    Cadence        704     33.52    35.20  37.05    36       38       Life      19      0%      19      100.00    
    Auto Attack    70      3.33     4.12   14.00    10       17       Physical  5       0%      5       100.00
    And here is one with Keen Strike, Quick Strike and Deadly Strike

    Code:
    TYPE           DAMAGE  EXT DPS  DPS    AVERAGE  MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRIT %  SWINGS  TO HIT %  
    All            1,533   90.18    90.18  61.32    12       244      All       25      4%      25      100.00    
    Deadly Strike  480     28.24    68.57  240.00   236      244      Physical  2       0%      2       100.00    
    Keen Strike    458     26.94    32.71  65.43    56       70       Physical  7       0%      7       100.00    
    Quick Strike   425     25.00    28.33  85.00    59       128      Physical  5       20%     5       100.00    
    Auto Attack    170     10.00    11.33  15.45    12       18       Physical  11      0%      11      100.00
    Same mobs. YOu can see the increase in DPS. But the difference in time to kill is 20 seconds to 17 seconds on the same mob over a few tries.

    So for me, the simpler Cadence/Deadly Strike works unless I am fighting something +level where that extra damage would really count. It's basically a two button attack for a single target. With AOE you can weigh the heal from Cadence over the damage from Twin Strike on two opponents.

    With this build you also don't have to play that little game of leaving combo points on your enemies to regain health. You can use your powerful finishers with abandon ^_^

    Next I will see if there are any other finishers that will do more damage than Deadly Strike for the same 10 point investment.

  7. #7
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default

    Right..just tried a Riftstalker/Nightblade build, with more Rift than nightblade.

    The results were fairly underwhelming. The Riftstalker felt relatively squishy and the requirements for leaving combo points up for healing were a bit overbearing.

    In Guardian phase survivability was improved, but the 30% reduction in damage really hurt. Encounters against the average mob increased to about 30seconds. And that was 30 seconds getting into trouble healthwise. If there was an Add, it was very risky.

    This with Guardian Phase up.

    Code:
    TYPE             DAMAGE  EXT DPS  DPS    AVERAGE  MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRIT %  SWINGS  TO HIT %  
    All              1,693   58.38    58.38  31.35    8        188      All       54      6%      60      90.00     
    Guarded Steel    350     12.07    21.88  175.00   162      188      Physical  2       0%      2       100.00    
    Fiery Spike      630     21.72    21.72  31.50    11       35       Fire      20      0%      24      83.33     
    Planar Strike    290     10.00    14.50  58.00    32       95       Physical  5       20%     5       100.00    
    Auto Attack      255     8.79     9.11   12.75    8        21       Physical  20      10%     22      90.91     
    Hellfire Blades  168     5.79     7.64   24.00    24       24       Fire      7       0%      7       100.00
    This with Guardian Phase off, and Stalker phase used instead
    Code:
    TYPE             DAMAGE  EXT DPS  DPS    AVERAGE  MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRIT %  SWINGS  TO HIT %  
    All              1,693   76.95    76.95  39.37    1        280      All       43      0%      48      89.58     
    Fiery Spike      317     14.41    26.42  39.63    16       47       Fire      8       0%      9       88.89     
    Planar Strike    461     20.95    23.05  76.83    64       86       Physical  6       0%      8       75.00     
    Auto Attack      282     12.82    13.43  14.10    1        21       Physical  20      0%      22      90.91     
    Hellfire Blades  253     11.50    13.32  36.14    34       39       Fire      7       0%      7       100.00    
    Shadow Assault   100     4.55     0.00   100.00   100      100      Physical  1       0%      1       100.00    
    Guarded Steel    280     12.73    0.00   280.00   280      280      Physical  1       0%      1       100.00
    All in all neither the survivability nor the damage was impressive. The ability to teleport to targets is neat, no doubt, but without all the buffs coming out of teleport/phasing it's really just an interesting way to close the gap. At this level if you took all those buffs you lose the benefit of that second tree.

    Next I will test out a main Nightblade build paired with the Riftstalker as secondary, mainly for Rift Scavenger.
    I'm level 29 at the moment.

  8. #8
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default Nightblade/Riftstalker highest dps.

    Well, this is a surprise.

    The Nightblade soul, which didn't look too fantastic at first, turns out to be the best soul to pair with Riftstalker.

    Kill time on average is about 13 seconds. (what a number!) . I downed three mobs before knowing what I was doing in about 30 seconds. Have not gone beyond 3. It was down to the wire, but I didn't know what I was doing. I wasn't using my cooldowns effectively.

    The parse below is with making use of Twilight Force and Dusk Strike.

    Code:
    TYPE               DAMAGE  EXT DPS  DPS     AVERAGE  MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRIT %  SWINGS  TO HIT %  
    All                1,693   130.23   130.23  51.30    8        613      All       33      9%      35      94.29     
    Fiery Spike        512     39.38    42.67   51.20    17       84       Fire      10      10%     11      90.91     
    Hellfire Blades    118     9.08     29.50   39.33    39       40       Fire      3       0%      3       100.00    
    Auto Attack        183     14.08    15.25   18.30    10       33       Physical  10      10%     11      90.91     
    Smoldering Blades  121     9.31     10.08   17.29    8        33       Fire      7       0%      7       100.00    
    Twilight Force     124     9.54     0.00    124.00   124      124      Death     1       0%      1       100.00    
    Dusk Strike        22      1.69     0.00    22.00    22       22       Death     1       0%      1       100.00    
    Blazing Strike     613     47.15    0.00    613.00   613      613      Fire      1       100%    1       100.00
    All the little enchantments really add up. The fight was done using single target attacks mostly as you can see. I didn't use the AOE attack, since that doesn't build any combo points and I needed those for health. Similarly with the AOE ranged and AOE Finisher. Didn't use em, because I would have been left without combo points and very dead ^_^

    I did not use Primal Strike, which does Physical Damage, very much at all. Prefering the Fiery Spike attack because of the higher damage over time. The DOT effect was quite powerful. I am not sure whether you lose efficiency if you hit with Fiery Spike more than 3 times before the 3 stack wears out.

    Fiery Spike confers an advantage to having it stacked 3 times. Beyond that, nothing much happens beyond it's initial damage. So perhaps the best thing is to Fiery Spike x 3 , and then Primal Strike to 5 combo points.

    The nightblade feels good.
    Here is the build I used:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M_ip..VhtR0RM.Eh0h
    Last edited by gel214th; 03-05-2011 at 12:12 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser fervor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    My imagination
    Posts
    382

    Default

    What are you using to parse the data? Are you doing it manually?

  10. #10
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default

    I use Advance Combat Tracker with the Rift plugin.

    http://advancedcombattracker.com/

    The Rift plugin is there on one of the pages as well. Follow the readme.txt instructions in the plugin to set it up.

    it's grrrrrrrrrreat!

    *munches cornflakes*

  11. #11
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default Assassin/Ranger (24)

    An interesting combination for level 30 is the Assassin Ranger.

    Ranger for the Razorbeast Boar as a meat shield and to pull aggro.

    Assassin for the killing power through Bleeds, with goes with the Ranger pet attack skills, crits,poisons and high damage finishing moves.

    Sending the Pet in to attack first, you are able to move behind the opponent and attack. The Assassin talent Double Cross increases the damage of your three main attack powers by up to 15% when you are behind your opponent.

    Rogues do it from behind.

    I can see this working as well with Saboteur, the Spike Charge causes bleeding as well. I'm wondering if the Assassin wouldn't finish enemies off quicker, though. The poisons increase damage, as do the increased Criticals with Savage Strike AND the 15% bonus being behind opponents. Backstab is also a very powerful attack.

    Saboteur will have higher burst damage, but you need to go fairly high in the tree to grab the damage boosting talents and at 30 you don't have that many points to play with after you drop 24 into Ranger.

    Another trick I learnt is to attack the same target as your pet to control aggro. This does not help at all when using AOE, but the Assassin is a single target attacker anyway. If you always attack the same enemy as the boar, you won't pull aggro off it.

    Some damage values from Assassin/Ranger(24)
    Code:
    TYPE             DAMAGE  EXT DPS  DPS     AVERAGE  MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRIT %  SWINGS  TO HIT %  
    All              1,391   115.92   139.10  47.97    4        431      All       29      17%     32      90.63     
    Savage Strike    575     47.92    57.50   82.14    29       105                7       57%     9       77.78     
    Serrated Blades  112     9.33     16.00   18.67    4        25       Physical  6       0%      6       100.00    
    Auto Attack      132     11.00    14.67   13.20    9        18       Physical  10      0%      11      90.91     
    Virulent Poison  101     8.42     14.43   33.67    31       35       Water     3       0%      3       100.00    
    Lethal Poison    40      3.33     10.00   20.00    20       20       Water     2       0%      2       100.00    
    Final Blow       431     35.92    0.00    431.00   431      431      Physical  1       100%    1       100.00
    And this was an experiment using Backstab instead of Savage Strike:
    Code:
    TYPE             DAMAGE  EXT DPS  DPS     AVERAGE  MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRIT %  SWINGS  TO HIT %  
    All              1,315   101.15   146.11  46.96    5        290      All       28      21%     29      96.55     
    Backstab         614     47.23    76.75   87.71    67       127      Physical  7       29%     7       100.00    
    Auto Attack      186     14.31    20.67   20.67    11       28       Physical  9       44%     10      90.00     
    Serrated Blades  101     7.77     16.83   16.83    5        24       Physical  6       0%      6       100.00    
    Lethal Poison    90      6.92     15.00   22.50    22       23       Water     4       0%      4       100.00    
    Virulent Poison  34      2.62     0.00    34.00    34       34       Water     1       0%      1       100.00    
    Final Blow       290     22.31    0.00    290.00   290      290      Physical  1       0%      1       100.00
    Basically the damage bonus to Backstab should make it better to use than savage blades until you get the +15% damage from being behind the opponent.

  12. #12
    Telaran Riftile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    T̂ͤͮ̒
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gel214th View Post
    Hello all,

    I have two specs, and I've been doing some comparisons.

    I have a Safe and very survivable Bard/Ranger spec. It's tough to die with this spec, and I always felt it did a fair amount of damage while leveling and was viable.

    Then I decided to play around with a Assassin/Riftstalker spec, both level 26. The specs aren't exactly geared for All out DPS, or all out Survival etc. They are just general leveling.

    What I found was that while the As/RS spec felt dicey in combat, it did a lot more Damage Per Second to opponents.

    The final proof, though, would be in how this increased DPS translates to leveling speed, which is how quickly you kill mobs for questing, open world grinding etc.

    The end result is that yes, that increased DPS does equal faster kill times. By more than 50% faster actually.

    The average encounter with the As/RS spec took about 12 seconds or 15 seconds on mobs.
    The average encounter with the same type of mobs on the Bd/Rng spec took 40, maybe 37 seconds.
    Code:
    Bard Spec numbers:
            DPS    Average    Crit %    To Hit %
    Coda of Fury    39.54    171.33    0%    100
    Coda of Wrath    31.5    186.34    19%    97.92
    Cadence        30.85    40.67    17%    95.74
    Code:
    As/RS Spec numbers:
     
            DPS    Average    Crit    To HIt
    Final Blow      56.44    215.19    6%    100
    Savage Strike    46.28    79.17    30%    93.83
    Fiery Spike     20.76    34.21    21%    94.59
    Puncture        14.58    31.53    24%    98
    Lethal Poison    8.08    23.03    0%    100
    Serrated Blades    7.79    12.18    0%    100
    Leeching Poison    7.25    22.07    0%    100
    Guarded Steel    0    197    0%    100
    The two mainstays of my attack rotations in the Assassin build are a lot higher than the Cadence/Coda of Wrath combo of the Bard.

    But let's look at another series of numbers. Healing.
    The As/RS spec has a skill called Rift Scavenger which gives you a fixed % of health for each combo point that is on the enemy when it dies.Assassin also has Leech Poison, which heals you for about 40+ health when you hit an opponent. The trick is, that you need to LEAVE combo points on your enemy in order to get the strong heal from Rift Scavenger. As we know, the whole point of combat is to build combos and then burn them with powerful finishers. So by leaving combos on the mob you aren't exactly killing them as quickly as possible.

    Now the Bard is a much simpler proposition. Cadence returns about the same amount of health each tick, each and every time it fires. Then of course you have your Motif of Regeneration and your Coda of Restoration. Essentially the bard is a lot more survivable and for less effort.

    OVerall, the As/RS feels more active, and is a bit more exciting.
    The Bard/Ranger feels slower, but a lot safer with more options for grouping.

    Just some info if you were as curious as I was about how all this DPS talk translates in-game.

    AS/RS http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MMp_.MVRcx0b.VG0h
    Bard/Ranger http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M_cN..Ec0M0qoz.E
    Who gives a flying ****.

    Hit 50 then calculate.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Taer99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    141

    Default

    your numbers posted for bard at level 25 are extremely low. I am not sure if you did a base comparison with no gear. But you should learn very quickly that bard scales the best with gear of ALMOST any calss..
    Let's go 40 man God and see what he drops.

    http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...&TabID=3310226

  14. #14
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    58

    Default

    This thread seems incredibly pointless. Your leveling speed at 25 has very little to do with how fast you kill things, because the majority of your leveling time isn't spent killing things, it's spent traveling. What's more, did we really need a thread to say "the spec that does more DPS but less healing kills things more quickly than the spec that does less DPS but more healing?

    Nothing in this thread seems even remotely insightful.

  15. #15
    Champion gel214th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default

    Well I personally am trying out different specs as I level up to find one that feels right for me.

    I started at level 25...I'm now level 30.

    There have been numerous questions posted about which combination kills faster, which combo would do more dps for leveling, and still being able to heal itself when things got rough.

    So I did some of the more popular combos to see for myself what the results were, and I decided to share the results.

    I also did a comparison between things like Ranger/Assassin, Bard/Bladedancer etc. and what I found was that there wasn't a whole heck of a difference between the spec that should kill things so much faster, as compared to the spec that could kill AND heal itself.

    So the fact is that NO.

    The spec that does the higher DPS compared to the Spec that heals, is NOT 100% better at killing things in the general run of play.

    Secondly who cares about how much time you spend travelling if when you get to the target you take 1 minute to kill a mob, or you get smeared across the sand and have to do it all over again.
    Last edited by gel214th; 03-06-2011 at 06:23 AM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts