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Thread: How has your rogue fared in world PVP so far?

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    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    Default How has your rogue fared in world PVP so far?

    Just looking to get a bit of feedback on this topic. How do you fare against other archetypes, what level are you, and what spec are you running?

    I've been using melee DPS (nightblade main) builds heavy in damage output and timers, but have had mixed results. On one hand I can usually blast down mages and most rogues (unless they are chloro or sabo) but in general can not do enough damage to a competently played warrior/cleric to dent them before they can burn me down. This is with use of all cooldowns, getting a jump from stealth, and having generally no problems staying in melee range and unloading. Had a 1 level higher champ/paragon kill me in around 8-10 seconds after I got the jump with side step up before he turned to attack. Maybe lucky crits, but regardless it was not fun.

    Now this is only at level 21... Hoping things get a little better at higher levels.

    NB/BD/RS http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MiVp.ibt0MoMo..VM
    NB/RS/AS http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MiMp.ibt0Mo.0AM

    I'm now kind of considering a riftstalker/bard build for PVP as it would greatly increase survivability since most of the classes I'm fighting can heal themselves or have massive amounts of HP. I know the ranged builds are better, but I'm trying to build something useful that is melee.

    Disclaimers: I know this game is not balanced for 1v1 and I know that melee classes generally do worse in PVP, this is not a QQ post. I just want to gather info on rogue builds that are successful in world PVP.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    i have mm/rang/nb spec (yeah i need another and something diff than rang) but i usually do top 5 damage and have top 3 kills... just hanging back and picking off the guys who either get too close or are the healers/casters in the back

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    Plane Touched Dylvish's Avatar
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    One of the things I love about this game, is it tends to follow a DAOC'ish doctrine of rock / paper / scissors. Rogues are a cloth wearers worst nightmare, as they should be. They also are a decent counter to each other, as it comes down usually to who gets off the stealth opener. Warriors usually will win against them due to armor / hps. With some exception, clothies tend to make warriors sweat, as can some cleric builds.

    I played a NB in beta 6 to try them out, and had a blast with them. It reminded me a lot of my assassin from DAOC. I would stealth, sneak up and nail the clothie, then run like hell until I could stealth again (or sometimes die if I could not get away). When we ran around in a group, I would stealth around behind the target group while my friends did most of their attacks front on, and I would nail the healer in the back.

    My build at the time was NB / Rift / BD similar to yours, although sometimes I would mix in a 0 point assassin for the extra blade procs.

    Bard and Sabo are strong for pvp, but are not at all my style. I much prefer to play melee when I am playing a rogue in pvp, as it fits my assassin-ish concept.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durak View Post
    i have mm/rang/nb spec (yeah i need another and something diff than rang) but i usually do top 5 damage and have top 3 kills... just hanging back and picking off the guys who either get too close or are the healers/casters in the back
    I'm not talking about warfronts, talking about open solo open world PVP. I love playing rogues in warfront, but it's just not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dylvish View Post
    One of the things I love about this game, is it tends to follow a DAOC'ish doctrine of rock / paper / scissors. Rogues are a cloth wearers worst nightmare, as they should be. They also are a decent counter to each other, as it comes down usually to who gets off the stealth opener. Warriors usually will win against them due to armor / hps. With some exception, clothies tend to make warriors sweat, as can some cleric builds.

    I played a NB in beta 6 to try them out, and had a blast with them. It reminded me a lot of my assassin from DAOC. I would stealth, sneak up and nail the clothie, then run like hell until I could stealth again (or sometimes die if I could not get away). When we ran around in a group, I would stealth around behind the target group while my friends did most of their attacks front on, and I would nail the healer in the back.

    My build at the time was NB / Rift / BD similar to yours, although sometimes I would mix in a 0 point assassin for the extra blade procs.

    Bard and Sabo are strong for pvp, but are not at all my style. I much prefer to play melee when I am playing a rogue in pvp, as it fits my assassin-ish concept.
    Yeah guess I'm an infiltrator at heart... had a little LE action going on when I did play DAOC, and played an assassin in AOC as well. However even when tanks were at their strongest in DAOC (before block nerf), I could still beat them often by outwitting or outskilling them. I am also stuck with wanting a good melee assassin build, but I would like to be able to out-skill warrior/cleric archetypes and win, but my experience so far with that has been generally negative as even with a big head start and proactive ability use, they can hit a couple of emergency buttons and come out safe. I'm hoping at higher levels with healing debuffs and more burst damage/timers to hit, it will get better.
    Last edited by Kutsuu Isback; 03-01-2011 at 05:33 PM.

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    Soulwalker Misaligned's Avatar
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    OP pretty much nailed my experience as well. I'm currently level 42 and have tried a variety of melee builds.

    I shouldn't bring expectations from other MMO fantasy games but I have to say I'm disappointed with rogue damage, at least at this level.

    Overall I guess it feels pretty balanced but I am confident I can predict the outcome of 90% of my engagements already simply based on their calling/souls and who gets the drop.

    I generally play hybrids with some sort of healing ability and thought I could enjoy a more dps oriented class this time around but I was wrong, I miss on-demand heals too much. I re-rolled cleric.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    I have been loving world pvp. I am sab,assassin,NB. I stealth when I see an enemy near me. Wait until they attack a mob and let the ganking begin! Level 26 atm and having fun killing in gloamwood. Deep sab build, btw.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimms View Post
    I have been loving world pvp. I am sab,assassin,NB. I stealth when I see an enemy near me. Wait until they attack a mob and let the ganking begin! Level 26 atm and having fun killing in gloamwood. Deep sab build, btw.
    Yeah i've seen the ranged DPS builds doing pretty well. I still want to make a melee build work... and I made myself wonder if I'm going about it the wrong way. Now considering something like this at 50 for solo world pvp. Guess I can try 12 bard, 4 sin, and full rift in the mid 20s for a "mini" version of it.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...oz.Eczq00ok.0m

    Will take very precise playing, spacing of plane shifts (6 plane shifts each on 30 sec timers with various effects) to maintain defense/damage buffs, saving riff>restoration for an emergency heal, and otherwise micromanaging more abilities than you'd have to in most other games (maybe some macros for motifs). Gives huge healing and HP pool, though... and probably pretty nice damage if using plane shifts properly. Could see it doing well in solo PVE with a few points changed around.

    The only thing it's really missing is a heal debuff which would be very useful against cleric builds, but since this build is so survivable, I believe wearing down a cleric's power then finishing them off is a realistic possibility.

    Or something a little more DPS oriented.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...zoM.Ac0o.V0p0M
    Last edited by Kutsuu Isback; 03-01-2011 at 06:35 PM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    And this would give even more healing + side steps at the cost of assassinate, stealth, 4% crit.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...bozoM.Eczq00sk

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    Shadowlander Mobydeux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylvish View Post
    I played a NB in beta 6 to try them out, and had a blast with them. It reminded me a lot of my assassin from DAOC. I would stealth, sneak up and nail the clothie, then run like hell until I could stealth again (or sometimes die if I could not get away). When we ran around in a group, I would stealth around behind the target group while my friends did most of their attacks front on, and I would nail the healer in the back.
    Except that in Rift, most of the healers are not wearing cloth... =/

    World pvp is not really a problem so far as an assassin, most of people are running with pve spec, as far as there is only 1 target, even with few levels above, it's still working well for us !

    Assa/Rift/BD lvl 40

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    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobydeux View Post
    Except that in Rift, most of the healers are not wearing cloth... =/

    World pvp is not really a problem so far as an assassin, most of people are running with pve spec, as far as there is only 1 target, even with few levels above, it's still working well for us !

    Assa/Rift/BD lvl 40
    So you beat champion/para and rb/reaver builds?

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    Plane Touched Dylvish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutsuu Isback View Post
    I'm not talking about warfronts, talking about open solo open world PVP. I love playing rogues in warfront, but it's just not the same.



    Yeah guess I'm an infiltrator at heart... had a little LE action going on when I did play DAOC, and played an assassin in AOC as well. However even when tanks were at their strongest in DAOC (before block nerf), I could still beat them often by outwitting or outskilling them. I am also stuck with wanting a good melee assassin build, but I would like to be able to out-skill warrior/cleric archetypes and win, but my experience so far with that has been generally negative as even with a big head start and proactive ability use, they can hit a couple of emergency buttons and come out safe. I'm hoping at higher levels with healing debuffs and more burst damage/timers to hit, it will get better.
    Other than SB's before the off hand damage nerf, I would put just about any of the 3 factions warriors against any melee stealther build in DAOC. Heck, some of them used to put on robes and sit out in the frontier, GIVING me the opening salvo, just for the chance to stand up and break out the 2hander. Was a lot of fun, but very, very rarely was I, or almost any other rogue able to regularly take on an equal or close to level / RR warrior type as a stealther. And it was the way it should be. I truly miss pvp in that game (pre Atlantis, that is).

    While I have not played a rogue up to 50, I did not have too much troubles with clerics in beta 6. Depending on build though.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylvish View Post
    Other than SB's before the off hand damage nerf, I would put just about any of the 3 factions warriors against any melee stealther build in DAOC. Heck, some of them used to put on robes and sit out in the frontier, GIVING me the opening salvo, just for the chance to stand up and break out the 2hander. Was a lot of fun, but very, very rarely was I, or almost any other rogue able to regularly take on an equal or close to level / RR warrior type as a stealther. And it was the way it should be. I truly miss pvp in that game (pre Atlantis, that is).

    While I have not played a rogue up to 50, I did not have too much troubles with clerics in beta 6. Depending on build though.
    I played basically from release up to late 2009 or so and all I can say about fighting war/arms/hero is that you may have needed some work on strategy. Have to kite them off when they RA dump, stuff like that... but they were certainly killable if you didn't just stand there and let them **** you. The tank classes well spec'd and templated are obviously superior, and a very well played tank will win around 70-80% of the time vs an equally skilled assassin which I think is a good ratio. However, tanks that were not optimized for 1v1 or skilled would get smashed to bits.

    So far with my full DPS NB/assa/RS spec, I've gotten eaten even by badly played, slow reaction time tanks simply because of a huge HP pool and similar damage to my own + heals in many cases. I'd rather it not be so easy for them... Especially the champ/x/x and rb/reaver setups... They are insane to 1v1.
    Last edited by Kutsuu Isback; 03-01-2011 at 07:54 PM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    Been doing a bit of PVE testing with a riftstalker + 12bard 0 BD build and very impressed so far. Need to see how it does in PVP. Cadence and power chord build combo points MUCH faster than melee attacks in general.
    Last edited by Kutsuu Isback; 03-01-2011 at 08:38 PM.
    http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/sparks03max/kutsmuffinsig.png

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    RIFT Guide Writer Kutsuu Isback's Avatar
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    So many combos... Ugh.

    Also considering something like this for the ranged snare at 6 points in ranger. This would increase ability to kite when I need healing, using planar shifts to get distance as needed (shadow shift and flashback) with a snare and 6 second mez for additional CC. Also pretty huge critical change with bard motif, plane shift, and ranger bonus up... 25% before gear is counted. Only problem with this one is I lose the bladedancer finisher/combo builder that I was using to do more damage than riftstalker or bard ones.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...k.Eczq00ok.V0o
    Last edited by Kutsuu Isback; 03-01-2011 at 08:53 PM.
    http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/sparks03max/kutsmuffinsig.png

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    dmv
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    Champion of Telara dmv's Avatar
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    Nigtblade/blade dancer/riftstalker. It's like driving a tank in the carpool lane.

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