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Thread: sick and tired of PERMA nerfs

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    I said god cuz you claimed him as best on all classes , when all people have almost same gear its all about who crits mostly which is RNG so that was sarcasm nothing related with you.

    Only few EU guilds upload parses and not all EU guilds except 1 uses more than 1 prima on their fights.

    I know you are not defending primalists but the way of your wordings going that toward and some other people took words from it and imply or will imply you are defending.

    I tried to convince few other guilds to upload prancing but as I said there is only 1 guild uses many primalists in their kills lately.

    Like our guild splitting two groups, if we want to beat all timers we could do as well like on very first day of TD normal mode we got sub-5min kill of tarjulia which was world 2nd kill yet we didn't even try it.
    Yeah. The reason why I asked it is group dps can affect individual dps a lot. My group is using three geared prims and others are all geared. So I thought It is making different maximum dps. For the last, yeah. I misuses the word "best". But Skid's characters are all top class. This is just telling. So i refered him. (His mage pulled 1.47?m on beruhast 2weeks before. And this week, we went with pugs and I dont remember the numbers.)

    Anyway I am not stating he is god neither. Just the number people usually say as the limitation is not that low. I wanted to tell it. Even tho I know that balance is broken now and should be fixed.
    Last edited by MusclPig; 08-27-2017 at 09:31 AM.
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  2. #62
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Lol. The Top DPS of any class is whoever has the biggest wallet combined with the best luck.

    Rift is so easy in this expansion that all specs and rotations have been dumbed down so hard with legendary's it is a joke. There is zero skill in rotations, majority of specs use what like 5 buttons with mad macros lol.

    It all comes down to the OP class + Big Wallet + Luck with drops/frags. Skill means nothing anymore, nothing in the game requires skill, any monkey can pull high end DPS in rift.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclPig View Post
    yabi
    Who mentioned your 2.2m or w/e?
    I specifically said BERUHAST.
    You killed bearuhast in 50 seconds? I couldn't find it on leaderboard.

    And no rogues cant do 2.2m ST dps in 50s, lol you know rogues work on 30s burst block right?


    And yea no idea why so many guilds are afraid of uploading their parses.
    None of the top guilds with the so called top primalist upload. =(
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 08-27-2017 at 12:42 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    Who mentioned your 2.2m or w/e?
    I specifically said BERUHAST.
    You killed bearuhast in 50 seconds? I couldn't find it on leaderboard.

    And no rogues cant do 2.2m ST dps in 50s, lol you know rogues work on 30s burst block right?


    And yea no idea why so many guilds are afraid of uploading their parses.
    None of the top guilds with the so called top primalist upload. =(
    Invinvible in his graph. And that 50sec fight is for TD Mini. not beruhast. I just said that if prim's standard is 50sec fight, every other comparison also should be 50sec fight. that was what I said.
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  5. #65
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Yea, skill means nothing in this expac, the more difficult the build, the lesser DPS it deals. (less rewarding or effective it is). Also, to those posting numbers, it just means with certain gear and stats, one can pull X amount of DPS (everyone should be pulling similar amount of DPS with given stats). While Aileen made a very good point about same (main) stats ≠ same DPS. (At the moment, a 4th upgrade eternal weapon Prim could easily beat a T1-full geared 6th upgrade eternal Warrior, etc..)

    But yea, I personally think Musclepig also made a point, after the Primalist changes soon™, With 7th Upgrade eternal, Mage should be top DPS (I could be wrong), and Warrior (tempest) and Cleric (inquisitor) could easily beat the 1mil DPS point on dummy. Hence, more or less ~1.5mil DPS in raids. Also Rogue's 7th Upgrade has pretty bad synergy to DPS specs, Rogue has the worst Ranged DPS class in the game >_<

    It still doesn't change the fact that Prim is once OP and another day Underpowered, some of the elements of the combat system still needs altering like primalist farseer healing and tank class balance issues. While I think Devs are struggling at class balance and new content, they might not have enough resource for such minor balance issues. (Minor issues such as solo tanking and solo healing ezTD and NMTD)
    Last edited by huangchingho; 08-27-2017 at 11:21 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclPig View Post
    Invinvible in his graph. And that 50sec fight is for TD Mini. not beruhast. I just said that if prim's standard is 50sec fight, every other comparison also should be 50sec fight. that was what I said.
    Not to nitpick, but the TD minis don't show up atm on prancingturtle.

    On topic.. lets face it.. with the massive power creep that was introduced with 4.0 from the end of NMT, in addition to fragments and other things, there will be no more balance in this game. Only way it'll happen is if they do a massive across the board stat rebalance(decrease) like they did years ago in.... 1.11 i believe?

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    Legendary's killed all class balance. Keyens literally made his work 5 times as hard with legendary's.

    They should not change entire soul rotations or soul mechanics, they should simply add a little bit more damage or something. I mean:

    - Primal Avatar: Wind Serpent - Grants full cunning. Increases damage by 20% for 15s. Dervish abilities are now 35m. All cast times are 0. 15s Duration. 60 Second Cooldown

    Legendary - Grants full cunning. Increases damage by 60% reduce 1% per second for 60s. Dervish abilities are now 35m. All cast times are 0. 60s Duration. 60 Second Cooldown.

    Way to kill dervish? Playing Dervish is not playing Dervish anymore, how many people since 4.0 do you see playing dervish with the intended design of going between Fury and Cunning every 15s and using Whirling Dervish/Earthfall? No one. How many people do you see running around playing some 21 or 24 point Dervish Hybrid because it has 100% up time on having fully ranged zero cast time abilties? Everyone.

    (Leg) Scything Strike - Your next damaging ability does 50% (or 120%) more damage.

    Cool, let's find the next thing that we can boost by 50% or 120% on top of other boosts to stack more boosts with boosts because an ability like scything strike exists and kills souls.

    (Leg) Molten Wave - For the next (8?) seconds, all your Vulcanist abilities deal an additional 90% Damage. Meaning every single game breaking build in game will have Molten wave and scything strike stacking on one overpowered AF ability.

    Non legendary: You channel a wave of lava and it does AOE, resetting your bar to harmony to use a perfect harmony stroke of brilliance.

    That's just one class. Not to mention how high stats are now in comparison, we went from doing like 100k DPS at the end of NMT on the dummy to 1.2m in tier 1 of Prophecy of Ahnket. Why????? Who though that would be an amazing idea. Rofl.

    The concept of legendary abilities is wonderful, but they do way too much for what they are. They change entire souls to play entire different rotations and souls do not function the same as they used to, it's like inventing brand new souls.

    I miss primalist. I have no clue what this abomination is.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 08-28-2017 at 02:51 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Legendary's killed all class balance. Keyens literally made his work 5 times as hard with legendary's.

    They should not change entire soul rotations or soul mechanics, they should simply add a little bit more damage or something. I mean:

    - Primal Avatar: Wind Serpent - Grants full cunning. Increases damage by 20% for 15s. Dervish abilities are now 35m. All cast times are 0. 15s Duration. 60 Second Cooldown

    Legendary - Grants full cunning. Increases damage by 60% reduce 1% per second for 60s. Dervish abilities are now 35m. All cast times are 0. 60s Duration. 60 Second Cooldown.

    Way to kill dervish? Playing Dervish is not playing Dervish anymore, how many people since 4.0 do you see playing dervish with the intended design of going between Fury and Cunning every 15s and using Whirling Dervish/Earthfall? No one. How many people do you see running around playing some 21 or 24 point Dervish Hybrid because it has 100% up time on having fully ranged zero cast time abilties? Everyone.

    (Leg) Scything Strike - Your next damaging ability does 50% (or 120%) more damage.

    Cool, let's find the next thing that we can boost by 50% or 120% on top of other boosts to stack more boosts with boosts because an ability like scything strike exists and kills souls.

    (Leg) Molten Wave - For the next (8?) seconds, all your Vulcanist abilities deal an additional 90% Damage. Meaning every single game breaking build in game will have Molten wave and scything strike stacking on one overpowered AF ability.

    Non legendary: You channel a wave of lava and it does AOE, resetting your bar to harmony to use a perfect harmony stroke of brilliance.

    That's just one class. Not to mention how high stats are now in comparison, we went from doing like 100k DPS at the end of NMT on the dummy to 1.2m in tier 1 of Prophecy of Ahnket. Why????? Who though that would be an amazing idea. Rofl.

    The concept of legendary abilities is wonderful, but they do way too much for what they are. They change entire souls to play entire different rotations and souls do not function the same as they used to, it's like inventing brand new souls.

    I miss primalist. I have no clue what this abomination is.
    Maybe we should only be allowed to use 2 legendary abilities, that way we'd also have to give more thought in what abilities to use as legendary.
    Last edited by Fia; 08-28-2017 at 11:44 AM.
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  9. #69
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    That's just one class. Not to mention how high stats are now in comparison, we went from doing like 100k DPS at the end of NMT on the dummy to 1.2m in tier 1 of Prophecy of Ahnket. Why????? Who though that would be an amazing idea. Rofl.
    Remember at the end of NMT T3 or (T3.5 COA)? People barely reach the 30% or 40% crit barrier, now we get those % numbers pre-T1, all thanks to fragments

    Other than that, my tank set with 61 tank build has 19.2% dodge with fully level-9 fragments and green essences (i mean you have to be a god to reach those numbers in NMT), I am sure it has something to do with suffix-gears as well with the removal of tertiary stats, they added more main and secondary stats on gears to compensate.
    Last edited by huangchingho; 08-28-2017 at 02:12 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangchingho View Post
    Remember at the end of NMT T3 or (T3.5 COA)? People barely reach the 30% or 40% crit barrier, now we get those % numbers pre-T1, all thanks to fragments

    Other than that, my tank set with 61 tank build has 19.2% dodge with fully level-9 fragments and green essences (i mean you have to be a god to reach those numbers in NMT), I am sure it has something to do with suffix-gears as well with the removal of tertiary stats, they added more main and secondary stats on gears to compensate.
    While you are right reaching this numbers is a bit ridicilous because physical crit softcap value 42240 is so close for many high level geared people on raid enviroment the main issue is not fragments for this problem, fragments is just like small portion of problem actually the real problem relies on itemization and high mainstats from items.

    Let's check you have 11 slots of fragments and if you ever get lucky with your fragment itself and get max main stat as secondary you can get is 357, in reality its 1/10000 or even less chance to have fragment with that high amount main stat as secondary.

    So let's check average fragment with mainstat as secondary on most people has 190ish if they are lucky that amount goes like 240ish, and you get another 150 to 200ish second stat (e.g str for rogues and prima) on them which is totally giving you around 200ish pcrit when you combine str and dex coming from 1 fragment, without having any physical crit on fragments most people getting around 2500ish physical crit via fragment, lets say all 11 slot has physical crit for player while max value you can get 628, if you get lucky on mainstat roll max value you can get around 270ish for physical crit. Let's say player has 300 pcrit as secondary from 11 slot too its making 3300 physical crit from fragments.


    Lets combine the values, result is approx 6k physical crit from fragments itself on average and actually most occasions.


    Lets compare expert gear with t1 preserver, expert vendor armor has around 1k dex while preserver has almost 2k dex, the value getting doubled, if player gets overlord chest piece this amount goes 2.2k dex, meanwhile str coming from gear is also getting doubled.

    Expert geared players with 11x 15 fragments with given stats above and pvp essences has around 25k dex 14k str, almost 22k physical crit.

    As you can see values are half as t1 raid geared.

    So problem lies on high amount main stat and secondary stat coming from items itself.

    Every 93.865 (93.86528778) physical crit gives you 0.1% physical crit increase prior to softcap, so as much as we get main stat, we get close to softcap itself.

    Such issue happend once on RIFT's history on vanilla then we got softcap introduction/rework for physical crit and main stat contributions changed, meanwhile amount for getting 0.1% crit chance also changed, this happend when HK was around because HK items were giving much more main stat than previous tier and things were getting out of control.

    Solution could be either rework on items and their stats or change physical crit contribution values.
    Last edited by aileen; 08-29-2017 at 05:19 PM.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    While you are right reaching this numbers is a bit ridicilous because physical crit softcap value 42240 is so close for many high level geared people on raid enviroment the main issue is not fragments for this problem, fragments is just like small portion of problem actually the real problem relies on itemization and high mainstats from items.

    Let's check you have 11 slots of fragments and if you ever get lucky with your fragment itself and get max main stat as secondary you can get is 357, in reality its 1/10000 or even less chance to have fragment with that high amount main stat as secondary.

    So let's check average fragment with mainstat as secondary on most people has 190ish if they are lucky that amount goes like 240ish, and you get another 150 to 200ish second stat (e.g str for rogues and prima) on them which is totally giving you around 200ish pcrit when you combine str and dex coming from 1 fragment, without having any physical crit on fragments most people getting around 2500ish physical crit via fragment, lets say all 11 slot has physical crit for player while max value you can get 628, if you get lucky on mainstat roll max value you can get around 270ish for physical crit. Let's say player has 300 pcrit as secondary from 11 slot too its making 3300 physical crit from fragments.


    Lets combine the values, result is approx 6k physical crit from fragments itself on average and actually most occasions.


    Lets compare expert gear with t1 preserver, expert vendor armor has around 1k dex while preserver has almost 2k dex, the value getting doubled, if player gets overlord chest piece this amount goes 2.2k dex, meanwhile str coming from gear is also getting doubled.

    Expert geared players with 11x 15 fragments with given stats above and pvp essences has around 25k dex 14k str, almost 22k physical crit.

    As you can see values are half as t1 raid geared.

    So problem lies on high amount main stat and secondary stat coming from items itself.

    Every 93.865 (93.86528778) physical crit gives you 0.1% physical crit increase prior to softcap, so as much as we get main stat, we get close to softcap itself.

    Such issue happend once on RIFT's history on vanilla then we got softcap introduction/rework for physical crit and main stat contributions changed, meanwhile amount for getting 0.1% crit chance also changed, this happend when HK was around because HK items were giving much more main stat than previous tier and things were getting out of control.

    Solution could be either rework on items and their stats or change physical crit contribution values.
    Rift also had more devs revolving around the MMORPG genre rather than MMOB&C (Building & Construction)
    Last edited by Gilgad; 08-29-2017 at 11:11 PM.

  12. #72
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    Default We began post our parse

    https://prancingturtle.com

    Check it if you want
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclPig View Post
    https://prancingturtle.com

    Check it if you want
    I saw your parses like 3 days ago, sadly we didn't get combatlog on our first raid from wednesday.

    All I can say except that stacked primalist parses, I didn't see any spectacular performance from your parses for each defined classes yet that stacked primalist beruhast kill once again confirms that how op primalist vs other classes.

    Anyway thanks for sharing parses
    Last edited by aileen; 09-04-2017 at 10:44 PM.
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    Your answer is exactly what I expected lol

    Korean latency for NA rift is really unstable. I hope next week will be better. haha
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  15. #75
    Rift Master aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclPig View Post
    Your answer is exactly what I expected lol

    Korean latency for NA rift is really unstable. I hope next week will be better. haha
    Don't get me wrong but on last eternal flinti did 1.56m this week on our group and we had 3 guys returned to game causing fight stays longer that forces it to lessen on dps compared to 87 sec parse you had with primas means perfect 3 darkdescent spams

    Same for zondron from last dawn he did 1.67m with last eternal unluckily they keep their parses private I can get screenshot for you thou.

    In an all you coming what I meant, in same gear levels its all about who crits most does more dps.

    What amazed me is dunno if it came from you too but think it was huang's guild did their cleric break 1.5m with inquisitor, I assume he was on last eternal stage.

    Yet still that 1.9m+ results from primalist once again I'll say shows how broken is the class is.

    PS: It might be not your latency but on EU specially people connecting from eastern europe like me getting huge lag spikes/momentary freezes too, so this must be some server side related issue.
    Last edited by aileen; 09-04-2017 at 11:18 PM. Reason: typo
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