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Thread: Vulcanist does higher ST dps than dervish

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    Soulwalker
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    Default Vulcanist does higher ST dps than dervish

    Can something be done about this?

    This has been the case for a while and its even worse with a t3 weapon because the proc sucks really bad on dervish.

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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    If there's no interruption on ethereal beams or molten waves. IE: Fights you can just sit there and shoot.

    Is also extremely dependant on EB crit rate.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 03-03-2016 at 01:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    If there's no interruption on ethereal beams or molten waves. IE: Fights you can just sit there and shoot.

    Is also extremely dependant on EB crit rate.
    For me, vulcanist is doing better than dervish even with EB crit rate less than 40%

    Its pretty easy to not get interrupted on a 3 second channel every thirty seconds. I don't think i've ever had to cancel it in a pve scenario, and I am pretty confident that I've played more vulcanist on t3 fights than any other primalist in the game.

    Same goes for molten wave, but molten wave isn't that important anyway. Its just a filler and you can always just use something else in its place.
    Last edited by BloodPanic; 03-03-2016 at 07:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    For me, vulcanist is doing better than dervish even with EB crit rate less than 40%

    Its pretty easy to not get interrupted on a 3 second channel every thirty seconds. I don't think i've ever had to cancel it in a pve scenario, and I am pretty confident that I've played more vulcanist on t3 fights than any other primalist in the game.

    Same goes for molten wave, but molten wave isn't that important anyway. Its just a filler and you can always just use something else in its place.
    Well let's take a look at a few bosses.

    Pagura - Dervish
    Arak - Dervish
    Fauxmire - Both about equal
    Envy - Both about equal
    Pillars - Dervish
    Enigma - Dervish
    Justice - Dervish
    Genesis - Both about equal
    Arisen Arak - Dervish

    That's what i've figured atm. What have you found and why chose vulcanist over dervish in the scenarios you pick in comparison to this list?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Well let's take a look at a few bosses.

    Pagura - Dervish
    Arak - Dervish
    Fauxmire - Both about equal
    Envy - Both about equal
    Pillars - Dervish
    Enigma - Dervish
    Justice - Dervish
    Genesis - Both about equal
    Arisen Arak - Dervish

    That's what i've figured atm. What have you found and why chose vulcanist over dervish in the scenarios you pick in comparison to this list?
    A big reason to play vulcanist on these fights is to make more room in the raid for other classes to play their melee specs. You lose a lot less by playing vulc than a mage loses by playing pyro or a warrior playing tempest.

    Pagura - Dervish is better for pulling the higher numbers, sure, but vulcanist will do more ST and deals with the high amount of movement and target swapping in this fight a lot better than dervish does.

    Arak - Dervish

    Fauxmire - Theoretically vulcanist should do significantly more. I'm going to try it this week.

    Envy - I've never played vulc on this fight because I've always needed to AOE or pull eyes as dervish, but I think vulc would be better. Having a blink would make this fight a lot easier. Boss movement is pretty hard to predict in this fight, making melee a little trickier.

    Pillars - Like fauxmire, I think vulc is a lot better on this fight. Vulc suffers less from swapping as well.

    Enigma - Dervish

    Justice - Hard to say on this one. Cooldowns would still line up for vulcanist to put down a lot of aoe on the adds. Dodging red bubbles would be a little harder, but you also would not have to worry about staying barely in melee range. You would also do better in the first ring phase, but the second ring phase would be pretty hard.

    Genesis - Both about equal

    Arisen Arak - Dervish

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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    A big reason to play vulcanist on these fights is to make more room in the raid for other classes to play their melee specs. You lose a lot less by playing vulc than a mage loses by playing pyro or a warrior playing tempest.
    I agree with this. But this does not mean vulcanist parses higher then dervish in all MoM boss fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    Pagura - Dervish is better for pulling the higher numbers, sure, but vulcanist will do more ST and deals with the high amount of movement and target swapping in this fight a lot better than dervish does.
    I disagree, you don't need to line of sight with Dervish, you can just defer death, Dervish is fully mobile so the "high amounts of movement" mean nothing. The target swapping happens mid PA every time, which doesn't affect your DPS at all, with that being said you can also cleave the ice golem and the boss at the same time while not even needing to LoS.

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    Fauxmire - Theoretically vulcanist should do significantly more. I'm going to try it this week.
    I agree, tell me how it goes, i'm mostly interested about the night phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    Envy - I've never played vulc on this fight because I've always needed to AOE or pull eyes as dervish, but I think vulc would be better. Having a blink would make this fight a lot easier. Boss movement is pretty hard to predict in this fight, making melee a little trickier.
    All depends on how it is tanked, in Coriolis I parse higher in Dervish because i'm always in Melee range and they kill the eyes allowing faster movement, in Critical Hit I parse higher in Vulcanist because i'm not in melee range a lot of the time and they don't kill the eyes meaning slower movement, meaning less time in melee. So they're about equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    Pillars - Like fauxmire, I think vulc is a lot better on this fight. Vulc suffers less from swapping as well.
    It depends on how you do the fight, there is a way to prevent swapping which makes dervish pull ahead, however it requires high movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    Justice - Hard to say on this one. Cooldowns would still line up for vulcanist to put down a lot of aoe on the adds. Dodging red bubbles would be a little harder, but you also would not have to worry about staying barely in melee range. You would also do better in the first ring phase, but the second ring phase would be pretty hard.
    Dervish hands down, way too much movement, way too many EB's interrupted, way too many Molten waves interrupted, way less SoB's near the end due to not being able to properly molten wave, then the free passive cleave every 30s on the adds with WD.

    So basically it is true that Vulcanist parses higher ST DPS then dervish, however it isn't optimal on majority of fights due to a lot of factors which make dervish parse higher.

    Agree?
    Last edited by Gilgad; 03-03-2016 at 08:39 PM.

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    I'm not going to try to argue further on this because like I said, on a lot of that fights I'm just guessing how well vulc would do. I plan to test it this week.

    Here's a parse. http://imgur.com/a/4ABgo.

    EB crit rate was 50% on the dot. No ability had more than 50% crit rate. My crit rate is 40.61% with cyclicism buff.

    Even if I add 5% to my best dervish parses that have crazy high crit on earthfall, I still do about 1-2k less than this average vulcanist parse.
    Last edited by BloodPanic; 03-03-2016 at 09:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    I'm not going to try to argue further on this because like I said, on a lot of that fights I'm just guessing how well vulc would do. I plan to test it this week.

    Here's a parse. http://imgur.com/a/4ABgo.

    EB crit rate was 50% on the dot. No ability had more than 50% crit rate. My crit rate is 40.61% with cyclicism buff.

    Even if I add 5% to my best dervish parses that have crazy high crit on earthfall, I still do about 1-2k less than this average vulcanist parse.
    I mean that's a dummy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    I mean that's a dummy.
    The fact that its a dummy doesn't really matter.

    Vulcanist is harder to play perfectly than dervish is, but is also a lot less punishing of mistakes. The only time when Dervish will outperform vulcanist in ST dps is during a long period of constant movement. In fights like fauxmire, pillars, pagura, and envy, Dervish will have no advantage over vulcanist in that regard. Especially on fauxmire, if you are not bad, its just like a dummy parse. There's no reason to ever lose a single gcd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPanic View Post
    The fact that its a dummy doesn't really matter.

    Vulcanist is harder to play perfectly than dervish is, but is also a lot less punishing of mistakes. The only time when Dervish will outperform vulcanist in ST dps is during a long period of constant movement. In fights like fauxmire, pillars, pagura, and envy, Dervish will have no advantage over vulcanist in that regard. Especially on fauxmire, if you are not bad, its just like a dummy parse. There's no reason to ever lose a single gcd.
    Unless you have to move out of say red because you die and debuff the other primalists because you didn't move. Because you were casting Ethereal beam.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 03-03-2016 at 09:49 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Unless you have to move out of say red because you die and debuff the other primalists because you didn't move. Because you were casting Ethereal beam.
    Well the nice thing is that vulcanist is ranged and you don't have to stand near anyone else. Eating 1 or even 2 red bubbles is not a problem. Plus you have a blink for emergencies. And if you are stuck on top of a bunch of people, just don't start an EB cast when you know a red is coming within the next few seconds....
    Last edited by BloodPanic; 03-03-2016 at 09:59 PM.

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