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Thread: Titan is still wanting

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Titan is still wanting

    First off, I fully acknowledge and appreciate the mitigation that Titan can bring to the table. Yay, sturdy, all that crap.

    I understand that there are some exceptional players out there that will have had zero of these issues because they were taught to play MMOs by the Heralds of the Internet and were blessed with the hands of an Asian Prodigy, but we need to consider how user friendly all tank souls are compared to Titan for the general population.

    As a boss tank, Titan is great. Can hold threat well in a single target situation and has plenty of cds to get through mechanics. However, once you start dealing with AoE waves of adds, or AoE packs of trash, Titan is unreliable. It is completely possible and doable, but when we think raid (or even expert) tanks we like our tanks to be super reliable, right? This unreliable nature will force Titan into an off tank role permanently. Meanwhile, superior spam infinite 10 target aggro that also have super single target threat tanks are used for every and any fight/situation.

    Rift has the DPS population programmed to unleash hell after a 3, 2, 1, so all tanks should be equipped in such a way to handle this in all situations. Trying to train a group of raiders/players/idiots that have played for years to "wait for aggro" leads to some colorful conversations that I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on. So the main issue I'm wanting to talk about is snap aggro during combat and initiating aggro on AoE packs.

    If we look at the Titan abilities there are a couple of things that are easy to notice for why some Titan players will have issues in many situations throughout Rift PvE content. Titan has the most of all Primalist abilities that are limited to when they can be used and the number is really easy to reach. Using just a couple of abilities can shove you over 60 Fury or 60 Cunning, which requires a back and forth of sometimes completely unnecessary abilities that do not benefit you in the moment for the sake of preparing to use the one you wanted. Those gcds are wasted and can cause problems in rapid PvE environments. Yes, you can plan for this. But a lot of tanks will not have this foresight throughout an entire encounter, and as such Titan will gain a bad name.

    Our primary source of AoE threat still comes from Earthquake, and while the modifier was bolstered it can and will never be fully self sufficient to maintain threat on waves of spawning or aggroing adds. The CD reduction was nice, but stationary threat doesn't always make for the win. Additionally, it is one of many Titan abilities that has a Fury/Cunning restriction. This ability is great for having threat on adds that stay near the boss once they're there. Hard to lose aggro on something you have, but Earthquake is absolute **** in terms of initiating threat, so it won't really help the cause of what I'm aiming to discuss here.

    Upheaval is a big hit with small amounts of targets hit due to it being a CC ability. It cannot be used above 60 Cunning, which means if you're spamming AoE and not paying attention to your bar you may well not ever use it. The tree talents to reduce the CD are nice, but at 40 seconds you cannot use this as a reliable threat ability for spawning adds.

    Crystalline Lance has a short enough cd to be useful, but like Upheaval it is blocked above 60 Cunning, so once again you have to use abilities that may not suit your current needs in order to stay above that number or reach that number. The Mastery for it to arc into additional targets is still in the game, which is atrocious. Simply removing the arc function of this mastery and a lot of Titan issues would go away. Make the mastery "Fork" the Lance like a Riftblade spear or something. Instant AoE aggro.

    We also have the Ancestral Force mastery at our disposal, but it hardly produces enough aggro in most raid situations. Additionally, with the way tank damage is constantly increasing in this game, it may well always be a heal.

    We can obtain Low Stability from Typhoon, which is nice in experts and against low level dps, but it hardly has enough threat for a raid setting like Pagura with the constant spawning of the spiders, or Grug with the waves of little ants. Very useful, but this non-tank ability alone will not solve Titan threat issues.

    Icy Cleave from Berserker is a joke. You'll hit each target for maybe...400 damage? So it can't be used for anything other than filler.

    Spreading Ethereal Corruption is great for dps, but because it requires a ST ability first you will never use this method of AoE for threat / initial threat.

    EDIT: Thanks Leth for reminding me that I forgot about an ability. Underworld Shards is a great tool for getting around the "can't use above 60 cunning," but as I told him in game I'd never really tried using it for in threat situations due to how I'd been using it with a specific purpose. He says it's also solid threat, so I'll have to dork with that.

    Titan needs reliable AoE.

    Too many of our AoE abilities have Fury/Cunning restrictions, hit too few targets, or simply have a cd that is not reliable. On a parse a Titan can look impressive/competitive, but a Titan will not be as capable of being a swarm of adds, trash, or rapidly spawning anything tank as any of the other tanks out there. We do not need Titan's Fury buffs. We need quality of life adjustments. Without changes average Titan players will not be used on boss fights that involve adds, trash packs that are too spread out or frequently spawn, and so on. Titan players need to have an equal chance at being used for all tank roles in the current game and the future game.
    Last edited by Grughar; 12-17-2015 at 08:05 PM.
    Grughur Grughar Grughir
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  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Lethaemis's Avatar
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    Not even a mention of Underworld Shards?
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  3. #3
    Rift Master Godgrinder's Avatar
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    The one, real and true problem with titan effectively is that of all the tanks this s the one that spams non tank abilities without threat modifiers on aoe, that's all there is to it and it's awefull.

    Apart from that the bar management mechanic is fairly simple, the problem is managing it requires said non threat modified abilities which is just bad.

    Of course besides that you could argue that the way lance works it's pretty annoying design in the grand picture of aoe threat and snap agro on larger scale or non linear spawns, this could easily work like the faceroll mage lazer and be good and done with.
    And you could argue that earthquake beeing a static pillar you drop would be done better of with your trembling steps making the earth quake thus centering the ability around the primalist but that's the smaller concerns.

    The whole issue is having to use non tank abilities and that is just awefull since it effectively has the highest amount of hybrid in the whole calling and quite frankly we don't need a hybrid tank but a full tank.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Yes I agree titan does need something more, I liked the idea of earthquake moving with you. Might be a bit similar to rogues though. some sort of spammable rock launching ability, jobs a good en, might be a bit mages but meh.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    This has been said several times, and that we shouldnt have to rely on offsouls aoe to gain aoe threat.

    2-3 new / more tank aoe abilities is needed.


    But the question is, where the devs, when this was suggested long ago?

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  6. #6
    Telaran
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    It has all been suggested before. That's why it needs to be suggested again. And then again. We'll get what Titan needs eventually, and a lot sooner than if we're all silent about it.
    Grughur Grughar Grughir
    <Nephilim> @Greybriar 3/4 HM CoA

  7. #7
    Rift Master Godgrinder's Avatar
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    Suggesting doesn't help, we need to emorage hard like that harbthread and push the pages fast.

    Joke aside, these fixes are just plain necessary.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Make Font of Retaliation enable Block so your not required to use Titanic Spirit just to make the buff work.

    Remove the arc restriction from Feline Reflexes and increase enemies affected to 4.

    Make Towering Stature affect all damaging abilities.

    Increase Upheaval's number of enemies to 10.
    Last edited by Burninalways; 12-19-2015 at 04:09 AM.
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  9. #9
    Rift Master The Raki's Avatar
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    My pet peeves (I realize these are minor)

    CD's seem longer then other tanks.
    Earthquake doesn't seem to int anyone picking items up in pvp (I.E. fang in BG)
    Epicenter does not work on the goo for the doctor fight in EC.

    =(

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Titan and Dervish pulls do not work on the goo from Doctor in EC. I think both should work.

    Earthquake was changed pretty early on so only the initial damage will interrupt objective interaction in PvP intentionally. It was deemed OP to have 100% up time of a stationary interrupt device.

    Only the PA Ram is a longer cd, but it matches Fusion of Flesh.
    Grughur Grughar Grughir
    <Nephilim> @Greybriar 3/4 HM CoA

  11. #11
    Rift Master The Raki's Avatar
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    I can understand EQ being OP. So I guess that was the right move. It just seems a lot harder AE'ing a spot as a Titan then a Void Knight (which is all I have to compare it to).

    AE pull - Pr 1 min - VK 45 seconds

    I guess the other thing is other tanks seem to have a plethora of other abilities not just defensive CD's where Titan has what? A stun and a beacon? (not comparing normal abilities like taunts/ints/pulls)

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