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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Primalist Loot

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    provided they can hit the mark on raising the gear droprate this would actually help rogues more than hurt would it not?
    That requires doubling the drop rate for all leather pieces and all dex heavy earrings, rings, necks, cape and so on.

    Actually Rogue gears are now BiS in 14 slots (not 13) to 2 callings (I forgot to count cape).

  2. #17
    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    That requires doubling the drop rate for all leather pieces and all dex heavy earrings, rings, necks, cape and so on.

    Actually Rogue gears are now BiS in 14 slots (not 13) to 2 callings (I forgot to count cape).
    it wouldn't require doubling it, that would make it a 50% droprate for leather (assuming it's 25% right now cuz 4 sets of gear) over plate, mail and cloth

    it would require a bump in it's droprate, but that means that raids will see more leather which means the primalists and rogues will get pieces faster and I assume their goal is to set this % so that everyone gets all their pieces at roughly the same time. I'm also sure the math behind it would take a lot of trial and error to get just right.


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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    it wouldn't require doubling it, that would make it a 50% droprate for leather (assuming it's 25% right now cuz 4 sets of gear) over plate, mail and cloth

    it would require a bump in it's droprate, but that means that raids will see more leather which means the primalists and rogues will get pieces faster and I assume their goal is to set this % so that everyone gets all their pieces at roughly the same time. I'm also sure the math behind it would take a lot of trial and error to get just right.
    If they don't double, then Primalist and Rogue will only get gears faster if you count them as the same class vs the other 3 classes individually. (This is the same mistake as Crithappens analogy, which is assuming there will be zero new players playing primalist, and 100% of the primalists used to be rogues).

    Both Primalist and Rogues will be in a severe disadvantage (getting half of the loot) compare to warrior/cleric/mage... assuming the raid comp would be 4/4/4/4/4

    doubling as in in relation to other classes drop. 4 classes will be 25/25/25/25, 5 classes will need to be 20/20/20/20/20 which means the sum of total leather will have to be 40% then 20% for the other 3 callings... get it? you need to double the leather/dex stuff drop in relation to the other 3 callings where their stuff are NOT being shared to keep the loot distribution fair.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 09-23-2015 at 01:44 PM.

  4. #19
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    Is this really happening again?
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem2k View Post
    Is this really happening again?
    What's happening again? Rogues getting half of the loot? Or only rogues are going to reroll primalist?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    What's happening again? Rogues getting half of the loot? Or only rogues are going to reroll primalist?
    This entire topic:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...primalist.html
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  7. #22
    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    If they don't double, then Primalist and Rogue will only get gears faster if you count them as the same class vs the other 3 classes individually. (This is the same mistake as Crithappens analogy, which is assuming there will be zero new players playing primalist, and 100% of the primalists used to be rogues).

    Both Primalist and Rogues will be in a severe disadvantage (getting half of the loot) compare to warrior/cleric/mage... assuming the raid comp would be 4/4/4/4/4

    doubling as in in relation to other classes drop. 4 classes will be 25/25/25/25, 5 classes will need to be 20/20/20/20/20 which means the sum of total leather will have to be 40% then 20% for the other 3 callings... get it? you need to double the leather/dex stuff drop in relation to the other 3 callings where their stuff are NOT being shared to keep the loot distribution fair.
    I did get it, you just said it incorrectly by saying to double it. doubling it relative to the other gear sets would have been a better way to phrase it and lead to less confusion. I also do not agree with it being 40% relative to 20% for other classes because I know I'm not a statistics expert, but I'm almost positive that's not how that math works to actually double the rate it drops.


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  8.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiune View Post
    I hate to bring up WoW but the stats should have been handled like their classes that share the same gear type.

    Example
    Rogues + Primalist = Leather
    Rogues primary stat is agility
    Primalist primary stat should be Strength

    Id rather fight over weapons with another class only really taking one of 2 slots (weapon or ranged/statstick) than fight over gear which takes up 6 slots of items that are material dependent.
    Since the initial question was a matter of availability and did not ask anything about probability. I only answered the availability issue.

    On the matter of probability, raid loot tables for t1 and t2 have been adjusted so that drops are equal probability across the 5 callings. In fact, it will slightly favor Rogues and Primalists. I say slightly with a grain of salt because over a large enough sample of data it's like having 1-2 extra grains of salt on a beach that is almost equal amounts of salt and sand save those few grains.

  9. #24
    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Since the initial question was a matter of availability and did not ask anything about probability. I only answered the availability issue.

    On the matter of probability, raid loot tables for t1 and t2 have been adjusted so that drops are equal probability across the 5 callings. In fact, it will slightly favor Rogues and Primalists. I say slightly with a grain of salt because over a large enough sample of data it's like having 1-2 extra grains of salt on a beach that is almost equal amounts of salt and sand save those few grains.
    So in the end there's going to be more salt


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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crithappens View Post
    How is this any different than Rogues competing with, well... other Rogues?

    Rhetorical question, it's not.

    People are blowing something that isn't a big deal into something that is. Nothing new. Nothing to see here. Move along, folks.
    Because it changes the ratio of those who want gear to the gear that drops.

    If you have a raid of 5 of each class
    Code:
    
    5 warriors
    5 clerics 
    5 mages
    5 rogues
    
    5 people want plate / str items
    5 people want cloth / int items
    5 people want chain / wis items
    5 people want leather / dex items
    
    Fine. You're competing against 4 other people, or maybe if you're up against 5 or 6 because there are a couple of extra rogues. Fine. It exists today and it's not great.

    But now take the same 20 man group with Primalists in it.

    Code:
    
    5 warriors
    2 clerics 
    3 mages
    5 primalists
    5 rogues
    
    5 people want plate / str items
    2 people want chain / wis items
    3 people want cloth / int items
    10 people want leather / dex items
    
    Last edited by Juxtaposed; 09-23-2015 at 04:56 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juxtaposed View Post
    Because it changes the ratio of those who want gear to the gear that drops.

    If you have a raid of 5 of each class
    Code:
    
    5 warriors
    5 clerics 
    5 mages
    5 rogues
    
    5 people want plate / str items
    5 people want cloth / int items
    5 people want chain / wis items
    5 people want leather / dex items
    
    Fine. You're competing against 4 other people, or maybe if you're up against 5 or 6 because there are a couple of extra rogues. Fine. It exists today and it's not great.

    But now take the same 20 man group with Primalists in it.

    Code:
    
    5 warriors
    2 clerics 
    3 mages
    5 primalists
    5 rogues
    
    5 people want plate / str items
    5 people want chain / wis items
    10 people want leather / dex items
    
    This isn't entirely accurate. You will probably see 5 mages, 5 clerics, 5 warriors, 2 or 3 rogues, 3 or 2 primalists more often than you will see 5 primalists and 5 rogues simply because primalists and rogues have similar loot tables.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    On the matter of probability, raid loot tables for t1 and t2 have been adjusted so that drops are equal probability across the 5 callings. In fact, it will slightly favor Rogues and Primalists. I say slightly with a grain of salt because over a large enough sample of data it's like having 1-2 extra grains of salt on a beach that is almost equal amounts of salt and sand save those few grains.
    Thanks for the responses Vladd, and I look forward to seeing what happens. As I mentioned, there will be very few primalists in T1 on day 1 (week 1, if you will) and even fewer in T2. Given that, in theory, rogues should see more loot (though it is still rng so who knows) because, for most groups, rogues will be the only dex wearing class for the first few weeks. Even with a 40% weighting, I think most groups won't notice a change (short of seeing a dex heavy 2h). As one who enjoys seeing how changes of this magnitude affect reactions (especially with previous knowledge), I can't wait for week one. I've been looking forward to primalist not because of the class itself (just isn't my thing so far), but how it will impact the game. So once again, thanks for the response. Should be an interesting week.
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  12. #27
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    Thanks for confirmation. Equal chance across all classes would be 20% probability per drop. This would essentially mean 40% of it would be leather. With a twist that leather can now probably drop twice hence the slight advantage for leather wearers.

    That's actually exactly like what I think it should work for the gear drop probability to be fair for all 5 classes.

    I think that's OK and which means primalist gearing would be very fast at least for the existing tier since most rogues don't need the drops anymore.

    Primalist numbers should slowly grow and eventually be relatively equal to other classes. Tho I know mmorpg generally has more rogues type classes than others. This could be true in rift too. Hey who knows.

    Thanks for the update. I see salts being generated either way might as well keep it mathematically fairER.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Well, the big thing here is that there are 2h weapons because everything else already exists. We have added weapons to T1 and T2 as well as experts, store, and tradeskills. Runes and orbs have been updated/added to work with Primalist. All of these will be ready for day one Primalist.

    The much larger task that we've been hitting as they have been reported are quests reward packages that do not have a Primalist 2h weapon option. With as many quests that we have in-game, I can't say for certain that we'll get every single one of them. We'll try for sure but if I was a betting man, I'd say that we miss a few just out of sheer volume.
    It'll be easier to have 2h crafted blues for each decade levels wouldn't it? Hint, hint. I'm prepared to do my duty and craft.

  14. #29
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    So on armor rogues and primalist have a 40% chance for a useful item to drop. All other classes have their chance for a useful item drop from 25% to 20%.

    Short term is a massive benefit to rogues as I doubt primalist are going to make up their "share" of a raid for a while.

    Looks like I'll have to rely on mark gear even more. I'm already using it for probably 50% of my gear. There are already situations where groups don't see certain class items in a long time and that's probably going to get worse now.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juxtaposed View Post
    Because it changes the ratio of those who want gear to the gear that drops.

    If you have a raid of 5 of each class
    Code:
    
    5 warriors
    5 clerics 
    5 mages
    5 rogues
    
    5 people want plate / str items
    5 people want cloth / int items
    5 people want chain / wis items
    5 people want leather / dex items
    
    Fine. You're competing against 4 other people, or maybe if you're up against 5 or 6 because there are a couple of extra rogues. Fine. It exists today and it's not great.

    But now take the same 20 man group with Primalists in it.

    Code:
    
    5 warriors
    2 clerics 
    3 mages
    5 primalists
    5 rogues
    
    5 people want plate / str items
    2 people want chain / wis items
    3 people want cloth / int items
    10 people want leather / dex items
    
    Before 3.4 (raid composition)

    5 warriors
    5 rogues
    5 clerics
    5 mages

    After 3.4

    1 warrior (BM/tempest)
    1 rogue
    1 mage
    17 primalists

    Welcome to Primalist!
    "No pain, No Gain"
    "The supposition that the newcomers need to "learn to play" or "do better" is silly. ~Daglar"

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