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Thread: The Necro Talents 9/10 People will Never Take (because they're bad).

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    Shadowlander
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    Default The Necro Talents 9/10 People will Never Take (because they're bad).

    Correction: 9/10 informed people.

    1. Greater Consumption: Unnecessary.
    2. Detonate Bones: Terrible waste of 3 points. This should be spent making the Necro's pet stronger instead there are plenty of ways to keep the pet alive and avoid ever triggering this ability.
    3. Master Chirurgeon: We're a DPS class, investing 5 entire points into increasing the health of our pets with no added benefit?
    4. Clattering Bones and Vengeful Spirit should really be combined. We can only get the benefits of one or the other at any time anyway. Some other, more useful talent could be filling this void.
    5. Empty the Crypts: Unanimously bad.

    Edit: This is considering Raid, Instance and PvP. Not leveling. Games aren't balanced around leveling.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-14-2011 at 04:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    1. Greater Consumption: Unnecessary.
    2. Detonate Bones: Terrible waste of 3 points. This should be spent making the Necro's pet stronger instead there are plenty of ways to keep the pet alive and avoid ever triggering this ability.
    3. Master Chirurgeon: We're a DPS class, investing 5 entire points into increasing the health of our pets with no added benefit?
    4. Clattering Bones and Vengeful Spirit should really be combined. We can only get the benefits of one or the other at any time anyway. Some other, more useful talent could be filling this void.
    5. Empty the Crypts: Unanimously bad.
    Well, #2 and #3 go hand in hand. You can get your pet to do maybe about a nukes worth of damage and stun the target. It should be more like 20% of your pets max health though. It's a PvP oriented talent by the way.

    Empty the Crypts is only bad because purge has no cooldown and is too good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stimuz View Post
    Well, #2 and #3 go hand in hand. You can get your pet to do maybe about a nukes worth of damage and stun the target. It should be more like 20% of your pets max health though. It's a PvP oriented talent by the way.

    Empty the Crypts is only bad because purge has no cooldown and is too good.
    For PvP there are much better ways to invest 8 points. Realize the percentage of your total 66 points that you're investing in such a novelty.
    The only time you might get 8 points worth of mileage out of this is if you're being somewhat idiotic and sending your pet into the critical mass of your enemy's team. And the returns are hardly worth losing a pet over.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-13-2011 at 01:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    1. Greater Consumption: Unnecessary.
    2. Detonate Bones: Terrible waste of 3 points. This should be spent making the Necro's pet stronger instead there are plenty of ways to keep the pet alive and avoid ever triggering this ability.
    3. Master Chirurgeon: We're a DPS class, investing 5 entire points into increasing the health of our pets with no added benefit?
    4. Clattering Bones and Vengeful Spirit should really be combined. We can only get the benefits of one or the other at any time anyway. Some other, more useful talent could be filling this void.
    5. Empty the Crypts: Unanimously bad.
    Actually Necro's are supposed to be pet dps with your abilities supporting it. Your pet is your main dps( or should be ). Sticking 5 points into the pets health is actually worth it since the pet is dps. Longer he lives the more dps you do. It's just like the Beastmaster huntards where in WoW sadly. In fact the abilities that a BM hunter had and what a necro has here is pretty similar ( minus the shooting part but you do have spells in place of the shooting) Thats the way I see necros here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabastain View Post
    Actually Necro's are supposed to be pet dps with your abilities supporting it. Your pet is your main dps( or should be ). Sticking 5 points into the pets health is actually worth it since the pet is dps. Longer he lives the more dps you do. It's just like the Beastmaster huntards where in WoW sadly. In fact the abilities that a BM hunter had and what a necro has here is pretty similar ( minus the shooting part but you do have spells in place of the shooting) Thats the way I see necros here.
    When what you say is too obvious, or follows incredibly simple logic which the person you are debating is likely to have already considered, take a moment to think: Is there something I am missing here?

    I take it you have not played the necromancer beyond level 16.
    Because if you had you would understand that you are completely wrong for two reasons:
    1. Your main attack is soul purge [Which significantly heals your pet].
    2. You have exhume.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-13-2011 at 01:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    I take it you have not played the necromancer beyond level 16.
    Because if you had you would understand that you are completely wrong for two reasons:
    1. Your main attack is soul purge [Which significantly heals your pet].
    2. You have exhume.
    I was talking more about raiding then regular leveling with aoes flying and what not if you decide to raid on a necro. More life for him would actually keep steady dps especially if the fight requires alot of movement where you can't sit still and drain etc. Using exhume would also be another plus if it dies to not slow dps down.
    Yes i have played an easymancer to 35 so far and it's really easy to play him. Do I have 5 points in his health ? No but I'm not raiding on him atm either . Maybe you should look past level 16? and more at the end at 50 . Sure thiers other spots you could spend points but at that point in the tree theres not really many other options if you intend on going past 31 points into necro. Don't see why anyone wouldnt put into the talent if they intend on doing higher level stuff. Oh and I'm not really debating rather just saying something I looked at later on
    Last edited by Sabastain; 02-13-2011 at 02:03 AM.

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    Rift Disciple
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    Empty the Crypts is only bad because purge has no cooldown and is too good.
    There are other ways to make swarm spells work. Longer cooldown plus 10, 20 or 30 seconds relyable duration. Spawn them directly on the target. Its not like other games hadnt cool and working swarm pets before (Everquest 2 for example).

    Swarm pets should be an additional source of fire and forget damage and not like a rockband to manage. Is my charge high enough ? Am I close enough to my target? Is my ping ok to prevent any delay because they will die in 5 seconds anyways? Is the weather perfect for undeads?

    Besides they should look cooler. Everquest 2 had a swarm of rats but what I would really prefer are spells and swarm pets with more flavor. Most of our pets are ok. Our 2nd tank pet looks really bad but I would love to see a swarm of bats flying to the enemy instead of generic green bold #7 and bad looking zombies blocking my view before they land one strike and all just die. Perhaps the pile of dead bodies could count as a root so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabastain View Post
    I was talking more about raiding then regular leveling with aoes flying and what not if you decide to raid on a necro. More life for him would actually keep steady dps especially if the fight requires alot of movement where you can't sit still and drain etc. Using exhume would also be another plus if it dies to not slow dps down.
    Yes i have played an easymancer to 35 so far and it's really easy to play him. Do I have 5 points in his health ? No but I'm not raiding on him atm either . Maybe you should look past level 16? and more at the end at 50 . Sure thiers other spots you could spend points but at that point in the tree theres not really many other options if you intend on going past 31 points into necro. Don't see why anyone wouldnt put into the talent if they intend on doing higher level stuff. Oh and I'm not really debating rather just saying something I looked at later on
    You realize we get a talent called Ancient Tomb specifically for this purpose, which reduces the AoE damage our pet takes by 35% + additional % for each point invested in necro.
    I severely doubt your pet will be dying more than once a minute through purges with that kind of AoE damage reduction. And if he is, it's only because you aren't micro-managing him at all.
    Again, if the point you're making is blatantly obvious, think first. You might be missing something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stimuz View Post
    Empty the Crypts is only bad because purge has no cooldown and is too good.
    Another way of looking at it is that Empty the Crypts is bad, because it's actually bad.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-13-2011 at 03:22 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    Another way of looking at it is that Empty the Crypts is bad, because it's actually bad.
    But it looks cool.

    I actually wonder if it does more damage than Soul Purge with Lich Form up.
    Last edited by Arianna; 02-13-2011 at 03:19 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    1. Greater Consumption: Unnecessary.
    2. Detonate Bones: Terrible waste of 3 points. This should be spent making the Necro's pet stronger instead there are plenty of ways to keep the pet alive and avoid ever triggering this ability.
    3. Master Chirurgeon: We're a DPS class, investing 5 entire points into increasing the health of our pets with no added benefit?
    4. Clattering Bones and Vengeful Spirit should really be combined. We can only get the benefits of one or the other at any time anyway. Some other, more useful talent could be filling this void.
    5. Empty the Crypts: Unanimously bad.
    Ok, I played necro/lock/chloro to level 32. Necro are very strong solo class. My considerations are based on PvE, and both solo or group holes.

    1- if you don't have a archon as second soul, Consumption and Great Consumption are must have abilities. It will refill your mana bar and you need it when you are soloing mobs non stop or at groups. If you don't have both maxed your mana can end fast.

    2- can be usefull when soloing, but I never tested it, I used my points at Master Chirurgeon. When soloing and more than one mob come after your pet, it can die fast. At least that ability can kill one or more mobs before they come after you.

    3- necro have 3 kind of pets: dps melee, tank and mage. Soloing you will need use the tank pet (the knigh version, please) and more time the pet survive, more time you survive fighting solo 2 or 3 mobs. Exume have long cooldown and use it for recreate a pet will eat all your MANA. This is an important advice: YOUR MANA IS FINITE, IF YOU USE THE SPELL FOR CALL THE PET TOO MANY TIMES YOUR MANA WILL DRY OUT. That same reason explain why a Necro need a Consumption or Great Consumption. And a good tip here: at groups, the knight pet can work as secondary tank, so it is good idea have it at good health. I too think is a good idea give to your dps pets some more health in case they get attacked.

    4- mmmmm... that is soul balance, but both will make your pet stronger (get less damage and make more damage). It is logical at a pet class to have both. The dev evidently want the players need make a choice at use a lot of points at the main soul or share them equality at diferent souls.

    5- Need learn to use Empty the Crypts. You will make mistakes (I did), but you will learn how to use it and when to use it. It will use charge, so more charge more time the pets stay. It is not an ability for use at the start of combat, when the necro don't maxed the charge. I use it mostly for emergencies, they can get the attention from me when too many mobs are eating me alive. Soul Purge is nice, but it work only against ONE mob, you need something for use when there are too many mobs hiting you. Save the Soul Purge when you are fighting the last boss into a dungeon. Against too many mobs, use Empty the Crypts.

    Ah yes, take note: I am basing on my real experience in game, not at a soul calculator.
    Last edited by joha; 02-13-2011 at 10:17 AM.

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    Ascendant Skjoldur's Avatar
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    Unless you want the 51 point full Necro build. Then we have to take all the garbage skills too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joha View Post
    Ok, I played necro/lock/chloro to level 32. Necro are very strong solo class. My considerations are based on PvE, and both solo or group holes.

    1- if you don't have a archon as second soul, Consumption and Great Consumption are must have abilities. It will refill your mana bar and you need it when you are soloing mobs non stop or at groups. If you don't have both maxed your mana can end fast.
    You realize we can steal mana from our pet and that every necro ever will have warlock for Sac Life: Mana. You realize that right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skjoldur View Post
    Unless you want the 51 point full Necro build. Then we have to take all the garbage skills too.
    Right now there's just no good reason to do 51 points unless it's a HUGE urge to RP. The number of trash talents, and the weakness of the root abilities higher up in level just make this a waste. Which is sad.
    Last edited by OdinTGE; 02-13-2011 at 10:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OdinTGE View Post
    You realize we can steal mana from our pet and that every necro ever will have warlock for Sac Life: Mana. You realize that right?
    And how much points you need use at warlock for it? Using Consumption I never had problems with mana.

    Quote Originally Posted by OdinTGE View Post
    Right now there's just no good reason to do 51 points unless it's a HUGE urge to RP. The number of trash talents, and the weakness of the root abilities higher up in level just make this a waste. Which is sad.
    Opinions diverge about that, some players say is not usefull, other players say it is important. My guess: both ways will work, like diferent souls combo too work. A player that go all way to 51 points and other that decide to share them equally between souls, IMHO both will work... but with some diferences.

    And a diference for necro, that is a pet class, is this one:

    LIFE BANE - with 5 points used, increases the damage dealt by you pet 2 % for each point spent on the Necromancer soul.

    So, let me see, 51 points at Necromancer soul, and your pets (each them, including the Empty the Crypts ones) will do 202 % normal damage....

    I guess why some necromancers say their pets are weak... maybe because they are too much warlocks...

    As I said, I get my necromance/warlock/chloromancer to level 32 at last beta. I am not basing my information on a soul calculator. And the way you say some talents are trash (and I know they aren't because I played the class to level 32) prove me you don't get above level 20 as necromancer.
    Last edited by joha; 02-13-2011 at 10:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    1. Greater Consumption: Unnecessary.
    2. Detonate Bones: Terrible waste of 3 points. This should be spent making the Necro's pet stronger instead there are plenty of ways to keep the pet alive and avoid ever triggering this ability.
    3. Master Chirurgeon: We're a DPS class, investing 5 entire points into increasing the health of our pets with no added benefit?
    4. Clattering Bones and Vengeful Spirit should really be combined. We can only get the benefits of one or the other at any time anyway. Some other, more useful talent could be filling this void.
    5. Empty the Crypts: Unanimously bad.

    Im wondering where you base this from. What standpoint.

    1. Greater Consumption is great pvp, it costs 0 mana, and really helps vs VKs, clerics, etc.

    2. Detonate Bones is pretty dumb. Even in pvp my pet doesnt die that often, tho it'd be nice to see him explode for a huge amount of damage when he does (its affected by spellpower).

    3.Master Chirugeon I take, in pvp people smack your pet a time or two then get discouraged by seeing how difficult it is to kill, and leave it alone. In PvE I enjoy soloing elites because normal mobs are more boring than that happy painter guy.

    4. 100% agree. I have yet to find a situation in which my mage pet is even better for anything. PvP or PvE. His DPS is awful, even AoE. Real bum since he looks so amazing. I dont even take vengeful spirit.

    5. Empty the crypts I find to be awful PvE. The zombies hit for nothing, dont last long, and wont let me build charge while they're out. Id rather hit soul purge. PvP its great if you're not being focused. All those pets make extra targets to tab onto for baddies.

    Id be happier if they tied a lot of these together, or made some of them inherent. But I can tell you it hasnt happened yet and wont next patch. Id like to see grave rot do more damage as well. Its WONDERFUL for stacking deathly calling, but compared to EVERY other mages AOE it does -nothing-.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joha View Post
    . And the way you say some talents are trash (and I know they aren't because I played the class to level 32) prove me you don't get above level 20 as necromancer.
    Sorry, you didn't prove anything. My necro did, in fact, get past level 20.

    Yes, I know about the talent that boosts pet damage per point. That single fact does not excuse all the talents that are, by themselves, worthless.

    Combine the bad talents with a nuke that is out shined by another soul's in every way and things just aren't quite right in the Necro tree.

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