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Thread: Harb Buff - Right direction but still not enough

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Harb Buff - Right direction but still not enough

    Recent Harb buff resulted in around 15-20k dps gain, which is great but to put that even close to other dps classes it needed 150-200k.
    Zzargo - DA -
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  2. #2
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    53

    Default

    The Harbinger damage buff got me like a 30k increase (approx.)
    I appreciate that you tried to buff the spec to bring it on par with other specs...
    ... but it didnt work.

    I think the problem Harbinger faces is that its "core abilities" (atleast the ones that were core pre 4.0) don't do any damage (-> lack of scaling with spellpower).

    Here are some max-hit-examples:

    Vorpal Slash: 103k max hit (+100% as DoT)
    -> (used to be one of the min-max core abilities)
    Storm's Fury: 185.6k max hit
    -> (used to be the third most damage ability)
    Tempest Winds: 200.4k max hit (+some damage over time and after cast ends)
    -> (used to be THE hard hitter in Harbinger)


    Thats just not enough damage to be competetive with other specs (even mage ones!)
    I guess you should maybe double each of those abilities damage (-> by changing the SP scaling so we don't have to have this thread every expansion.)

    I think DPS souls are supposed to sit at about 275-300k DPS over 3-5 minutes.
    That means you can't have "core abilities" and "hard hitters" to only deal such low amounts of DPS (see values in my parses/screenshots). PLS FIX!

    To achieve this, I would suggest buffing the scaling part of the core abilities of the specs and nerfing too OP legendaries (e.g. Bloom (-> make the 5 Vile Spores only do 50% of their normal damage?) & Fire Storm (-> Mana cost too high btw! base damage is to damn high... + it provides a 30% fire damage buff -> OP).

    But please keep it mind that just nerfing the OP abilities doesn't do the trick! You (the dev) need to implement compensations to make specs fun (not a clunky mess of 1s and 1.5s GCD or stupid ability padding), deal competible (comparable) damage (of different callings) and make them not dependant on OP abilities.

    Thanks for reading,
    Nazuki

    PS: Here are some parses I did in my dimension to show the continuous lack of comparable DPS and also show the OP-ness of the above-mentioned abilities (Bloom & Fire Storm). I mean I literally just put 60 points into Harbinger to get Legendary Fire Storm in Pyro, and I ended up with more DPS than a 61 Harbinger even though I created this spec and the macros in like 2 minutes.

    stupid 60Harb/Pyro/Arb: http://imgur.com/a/2ZnkP (~ 250k DPS)
    "new" 61Harb/Chloro/Arb: http://imgur.com/I35V9Q1 (~215k DPS)

    PPS: maybe some dev could tell me why they increased the soft cap of Crit and Critpower so much. I mean I could understand going from like 3k CritPower cap to like 4 or 5k - but 9k seems unreasonable.
    Also specs that need abilities to crit in order to lead to mechanic x/y have received a huge cut by the abnoxious values (scaling) of Physical Crit or Spell Crit. (e.g. mana regeneration of Frostkeeper)
    Last edited by Nazuki; 12-01-2016 at 09:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Soesoulis's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazuki View Post
    The Harbinger damage buff got me like a 30k increase (approx.)
    I appreciate that you tried to buff the spec to bring it on par with other specs...
    ... but it didnt work.

    I think the problem Harbinger faces is that its "core abilities" (atleast the ones that were core pre 4.0) don't do any damage (-> lack of scaling with spellpower).

    Here are some max-hit-examples:

    Vorpal Slash: 103k max hit (+100% as DoT)
    -> (used to be one of the min-max core abilities)
    Storm's Fury: 185.6k max hit
    -> (used to be the third most damage ability)
    Tempest Winds: 200.4k max hit (+some damage over time and after cast ends)
    -> (used to be THE hard hitter in Harbinger)


    Thats just not enough damage to be competetive with other specs (even mage ones!)
    I guess you should maybe double each of those abilities damage (-> by changing the SP scaling so we don't have to have this thread every expansion.)

    I think DPS souls are supposed to sit at about 275-300k DPS over 3-5 minutes.
    That means you can't have "core abilities" and "hard hitters" to only deal such low amounts of DPS (see values in my parses/screenshots). PLS FIX!

    To achieve this, I would suggest buffing the scaling part of the core abilities of the specs and nerfing too OP legendaries (e.g. Bloom (-> make the 5 Vile Spores only do 50% of their normal damage?) & Fire Storm (-> Mana cost too high btw! base damage is to damn high... + it provides a 30% fire damage buff -> OP).

    But please keep it mind that just nerfing the OP abilities doesn't do the trick! You (the dev) need to implement compensations to make specs fun (not a clunky mess of 1s and 1.5s GCD or stupid ability padding), deal competible (comparable) damage (of different callings) and make them not dependant on OP abilities.

    Thanks for reading,
    Nazuki

    PS: Here are some parses I did in my dimension to show the continuous lack of comparable DPS and also show the OP-ness of the above-mentioned abilities (Bloom & Fire Storm). I mean I literally just put 60 points into Harbinger to get Legendary Fire Storm in Pyro, and I ended up with more DPS than a 61 Harbinger even though I created this spec and the macros in like 2 minutes.

    stupid 60Harb/Pyro/Arb: http://imgur.com/a/2ZnkP (~ 250k DPS)
    "new" 61Harb/Chloro/Arb: http://imgur.com/I35V9Q1 (~215k DPS)

    PPS: maybe some dev could tell me why they increased the soft cap of Crit and Critpower so much. I mean I could understand going from like 3k CritPower cap to like 4 or 5k - but 9k seems unreasonable.
    Also specs that need abilities to crit in order to lead to mechanic x/y have received a huge cut by the abnoxious values (scaling) of Physical Crit or Spell Crit. (e.g. mana regeneration of Frostkeeper)
    Sadly, what you said its true (sadly because "lets buff harb"), and since you dont use SS(at that stupid 60harb) you may sacrifice Leaf of the Wind for the Improved Flame bolt or Tactical Knowledge at arb.. Its kinda sad tho
    Soes@Zaviel "Number 1 Mage Bot"
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  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nazuki View Post
    The Harbinger damage buff got me like a 30k increase (approx.)
    I appreciate that you tried to buff the spec to bring it on par with other specs...
    ... but it didnt work.

    I think the problem Harbinger faces is that its "core abilities" (atleast the ones that were core pre 4.0) don't do any damage (-> lack of scaling with spellpower).

    Here are some max-hit-examples:

    Vorpal Slash: 103k max hit (+100% as DoT)
    -> (used to be one of the min-max core abilities)
    Storm's Fury: 185.6k max hit
    -> (used to be the third most damage ability)
    Tempest Winds: 200.4k max hit (+some damage over time and after cast ends)
    -> (used to be THE hard hitter in Harbinger)


    Thats just not enough damage to be competetive with other specs (even mage ones!)
    I guess you should maybe double each of those abilities damage (-> by changing the SP scaling so we don't have to have this thread every expansion.)

    I think DPS souls are supposed to sit at about 275-300k DPS over 3-5 minutes.
    That means you can't have "core abilities" and "hard hitters" to only deal such low amounts of DPS (see values in my parses/screenshots). PLS FIX!

    To achieve this, I would suggest buffing the scaling part of the core abilities of the specs and nerfing too OP legendaries (e.g. Bloom (-> make the 5 Vile Spores only do 50% of their normal damage?) & Fire Storm (-> Mana cost too high btw! base damage is to damn high... + it provides a 30% fire damage buff -> OP).

    But please keep it mind that just nerfing the OP abilities doesn't do the trick! You (the dev) need to implement compensations to make specs fun (not a clunky mess of 1s and 1.5s GCD or stupid ability padding), deal competible (comparable) damage (of different callings) and make them not dependant on OP abilities.

    Thanks for reading,
    Nazuki

    PS: Here are some parses I did in my dimension to show the continuous lack of comparable DPS and also show the OP-ness of the above-mentioned abilities (Bloom & Fire Storm). I mean I literally just put 60 points into Harbinger to get Legendary Fire Storm in Pyro, and I ended up with more DPS than a 61 Harbinger even though I created this spec and the macros in like 2 minutes.

    stupid 60Harb/Pyro/Arb: http://imgur.com/a/2ZnkP (~ 250k DPS)
    "new" 61Harb/Chloro/Arb: http://imgur.com/I35V9Q1 (~215k DPS)

    PPS: maybe some dev could tell me why they increased the soft cap of Crit and Critpower so much. I mean I could understand going from like 3k CritPower cap to like 4 or 5k - but 9k seems unreasonable.
    Also specs that need abilities to crit in order to lead to mechanic x/y have received a huge cut by the abnoxious values (scaling) of Physical Crit or Spell Crit. (e.g. mana regeneration of Frostkeeper)
    So nerf a Chloro Legendary because it does to much of a off spec?

    Please nerf my heal spec because of it that helps

    I could see this coming miles away. Legendries sitting at zero points be stupidly overpowered. People grab them and they make those DPS specs to good. So Trion will nerf them hurting the Legendary for the actual spec it should be helping.

    Legendary should be good for the spec it for and nothing else.

    If Trion wants legendries to be legendary then they should help the specs they are for. Not every spec in the game but those.

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