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Thread: Regarding Harbinger 3.3.

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulesspurity View Post
    Healers are easily downed in Harbinger.

    End result. You clearly having trouble mastering a specialization that was called to simple to macro.... You fail to kill a healer in the specialization thats considered to "easy"
    I've seen you and healed your *** more than once in a warfront. If you haven't seen me in the warfronts, then you don't pay attention to your healers, nor do you pay attention to your rift-meter and the scoreboard. You should work on that.

    A harbinger does not have a lot of tools with which to kill even a Chloro. Sustained damage will just make me pop RtW, get out of range, and LoS. If you don't have burst, your chances of getting a kill are greatly reduced.

    I'm done with this now. If you still fail to acknowledge the importance of burst for PvP DPS by now, no amount of reasoning will get through to you.

    Have a good day, and ffs pay attention to who is healing you in the warfronts.

  2. #152
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    I'm still doing just as much damage in pyro if not more with raid cooldowns. New harb is trash

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakehavok View Post
    I think that asking for harbinger to get a better pvp burst is like asking for elementalist or necro to get a boost for pve.
    Elementalist and Necro should receive a buff. They are complete garbage at lvl 65 beyond AFK-farming open world content.

    Redhawk already mentioned that he wouldn't do it (buff/ reform ele or necro) because they're pet specs and meant for a certain reason. Leveling.
    So, viable for a few weeks and then tossed into the garbage bin. What an utterly stupid waste of two potentially awesome souls. Trion would greatly benefit by getting rid of this thinking and just fiddling around with a few numbers to make those two souls at least viable for HK IA and dungeons.

  4. #154
    Rift Disciple Abhor748's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhor748 View Post
    You all should stop indulging this Soulesspurity troll. He's toxic and only serving to derail every single productive conversation in the section with nonsense.
    Come on, guys. Since he won't be banned just ignore him.
    Abhor@Greybriar

  5. #155
    Rift Disciple Blakehavok's Avatar
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    I'm not being unreasonable here..Just try to read my words with passiveness. Sorry for the long post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    Because you are probably using it with the wrong priority order.
    Once initial dots are up, over a 5 minute parse, wouldn't the difference be significant enough if im using all of my abilities?

    Like lets just say I do tempest before maintaining 3 stacks of rending, PB, BL, -> but after that I maintaining 3 stacks of rending, PB, BL for 5 minutes -> .. shouldn't tempest winds be significant enough for me to see a definite difference? And..I just don't see it with my parses in dimension. It could stack better in raid / be more noticeable in a raid situation,idk that's just what im seeing. I'll post differences..

    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    I'm sorry what?
    There is nothing wrong with wanting a spec to be VIABLE for both PvE and PvP.

    The Keyword here being VIABLE.

    Reaver isn't VIABLE, it's DOWNRIGHT BROKEN.
    Nobody here wants a freaking Reaver.
    The only ones who have enough lack of self-respect to want Reaver are all playing Warriors right now.


    And according to what you are saying, Trion should nerf Shaman, Paragon, Warlord, Assassin and Nightblade because they perform waaaaaay too much.

    Also, did you just say that Harbinger got "reavered"? Are you *@()&* serious?

    You said stormbringer got replaced by a braindead spec..the only spec for mages that changed was harb in 3.3, so I have to assume you're talking about that ;) Reaver is...dumbed down. You can do like 98% of your rotation with 2 buttons. I mean, before harb was not worth doing because phase step and all that jazz. Now its..a lot more simple. Hence, the reavered.. and apparently balance is to much to ask man. I don't think at this point we'll be getting any adjustments to harb unless its a nerf. So just wait until warlock and hope for the best.

    There are..I mean, there were plenty of suggestions made for redhawk for harbringer..but the only thing he listened to really, is to get rid of phase step, and to get rid of empyrean ascension's abilities. He's probably just not able to make the changes we suggested, I mean the servers were barley running this week. (although we did have the 1s GCD fixed, and now its broken again, it wasn't OP at all..idk why its an issue.)

    Look at the responses mages always get. I'm not trolling you, im just saying im glad we got viable melee specs we can level with, NMR with, and be of use in melee friendly fights during raids.
    Last edited by Blakehavok; 07-18-2015 at 11:36 PM.

  6. #156
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakehavok View Post
    Look at the responses mages always get. I'm not trolling you, im just saying im glad we got viable melee specs we can level with, NMR with, and be of use in melee friendly fights during raids.
    You shouldn't be glad that mage is in such a pitiful state.

    There is a reason why so many of us have this banner in our signature.
    If we just accept that we can't have the calling we love and want to play get fixed, we will never get it fixed.
    That's also why I bothered to make that video.

    I'm not going to just give up. I want to play my Mage as my main, not my Cleric, not my Rogue and certainly not my Warrior.
    Cheesecakesandwich - Mage 70 | Wrecking - Warrior 70
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  7. #157
    Rift Disciple Blakehavok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    You shouldn't be glad that mage is in such a pitiful state.

    There is a reason why so many of us have this banner in our signature.
    If we just accept that we can't have the calling we love and want to play get fixed, we will never get it fixed.
    That's also why I bothered to make that video.

    I'm not going to just give up. I want to play my Mage as my main, not my Cleric, not my Rogue and certainly not my Warrior.
    He has the idea that certain souls are meant for a reason..so Again I don't think redhawk wants to address making harb a pvp soul when we have pyro and dom...Theres nothing wrong with sustain dps in my own opinion. The fact that harb takes forever to ramp up, blows. It's what we have though. It took like 3-4 months to get this done..so, like I suggested..I'll wait until warlock patch and hope for the best.

    and btw, I guess tempest winds is a dps increase I was wrong, thanks for pointing that out.
    Last edited by Blakehavok; 07-19-2015 at 10:17 AM.

  8. #158
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    We all know Souless is a scrub who shouldnt even be RAMBLING about mage as he knows nothing about it, but at the same time you all should be practicing your harb if your pyro is doing just as much damage.

    #PrioritizeYourTime
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  9. #159
    Shield of Telara Wilkoss's Avatar
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    The simple fact is, Harb is not a high priority for a rework. In fact no souls for any classes are. All the time is taken up with developing Primalist. We probably wont see any more tweaks beyond the +100 charge for EA that is on PTS and should be rolled out tomorrow on Live.

    If 54 is still ahead then I would suggest the following quick fixes:

    Move Nature's Corrosion up to the 10 point line in the tree.
    Increase the damage to EA from 25% (18% in reality) to 40% (29%).

    This will kill off 54 and boost 61 to current 54 level but without the insane amount of free healing. 54 would still be playable if the fight really needed the extra heals and could afford a slight hit on DPS. Having top DPS and free heals is a bit OP.

    It would also give the PvPers a much needed boost to burst capability.

    3 birds - 1 stone and a very simple change to make.


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  10. #160
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    Having finally got into playing the new harb, and reading all 117 pages of the suggestions thread I'll be honest and say I've not read every page of this.

    Current playstyle - if this is what Red Hawk wishes it to be needs at least 1 QoL fix (of course there are many other issues)

    A little charge management can make a spec interesting, this amount is tedious a long side the CB toggling.

    I have just one suggestion that I feel would at least make a more enjoyable experience playing the role in the current state we have.

    Tempest Winds must grant charge

  11. #161
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkoss View Post
    It would also give the PvPers a much needed boost to burst capability.
    Nope. Not even close.
    With the current Harbinger abilities, you'd need an EA that grant more than 100% damage boost in order to even come close to the burst every other melee specs have.
    Last edited by Snap; 07-23-2015 at 12:21 AM.
    Cheesecakesandwich - Mage 70 | Wrecking - Warrior 70
    Italiansausage - Cleric 70 | Snaplemouton - Rogue 67
    Primalsandwich - Primalist 70
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    Nope. Not even close.
    With the current Harbinger abilities, you'd need an EA that grant more than 100% damage boost in order to even come close to the burst every other melee specs have.
    What has always disappointed me about Harb is calling something Vorpal Slash, and then giving it a fairly weak DoT in lieu of a real "vorpal" chance opportunity. (numbers and percentages used below are for illustrative purposes only. It's the mechanics I'm interested in, not arguing absolute numbers).

    So, what makes a better "burst" than when a true vorpal strike procs, and somebody loses their head?

    Let's see; when a target has Blazing Light ticking away on them, and the Harb has the Piercing Beam enhancement; let's say it converts the normal VS damage component into a real "vorpal" strike (and enhances the DoT component by adding something which provides a "continuation element" instead of just a fairly weak DoT).

    Additionally, the magnitude of the vorpal hit would be multiplied by the number of rending stacks present on the soon to be victim. In PvP, this would increase the value of Phantom Blades, as the Harb could hang back, pop Phantom, drop in the vorpal conditions from range (BL+PB+"x" RS), Blade Rush the victim, drop the Boom!, and then finish them off as per the normal Harb rotation (or immediately proc EA for the finisher). The envisioned "vorpal" damage table:
    Vorpal Slash Damage Table
    (RS stack, Crit Multiplier)
    0, base Crit
    1, x2
    2, x3
    3, x4
    Then, to really make this work, up the raw damage on the base Vorpal Slash attack by at least 50% (and add a new combat buff called "Reaper of Souls". see below). Now, the point is to provide a breathtaking hit when the victim has BL(DoT) + 3 stacks of Rending, and the Harb has the Piercing Beam enhancement. When the Vorpal goes off under that circumstance, it should rock any victims world. (what this proposes in essence, is without Rending stacks, Vorpal becomes a forced crit. Then, the affect can be multiplied by however many Rending Slashs the Harb can get off before the next Vorpal attempt. Then, the longer we hold out, the higher the reward. No more mindless Slash macros after this change, for sure, as VS would definitely need to be taken out of any normal slash macro, and held back like a "finisher" special).
    And now for the Coup de Grace; For 15s after a true vorpal, the Harb's weapon takes on a sparkling light blue glow (shout out to the Storm Legion), and a buff enhancement known as "Reaper of Souls" pops, which increases base damage on all attacks by 20% for the duration of RoS (and is in effect for both EA and Eldritch procs, addressing 2 additional weaknesses in one go), and which cannot be purged. Done correctly, this would front load more damage (burst) into EA, and would be an excellent synergy between the Vorpal and EA mechanics. Any recursive VSs landed within EA, would execute the vorpal specials (with EA damage enhancements) and reset the 15s timer on RoS. "Oh baby! Recursion is the shizny"...

    Is it too much to ask for a recursive vorpal proc to also reset the sad little duration of EA? Me thinks not, LOL. Besides, this would give our steel angels an "In Flight" continuation potential, where through our own efforts, we could keep the angels flying for longer. Wanna see more Harb(61)s out and about in the lush vistas of Telara? I sure do, so here ya go...
    Then, when a Harb enters the field of battle, people will take notice, or else. Healers, be afraid, be very afraid, and, oh yeah, RUN AWAY!

    And none of this airy-fairy "leave the Vorpal proc up to RNGesus", either. When the Harb meets the conditions (which is difficult to achieve in PvP anyway), the real vorpal fires...and the only question is; which vorpal is coming at you? The basic one? Or one of the upper tier ones which will absolutely rock your world...

    Of course, this would probably require moving things around in the soul tree a bit, so dipping into Harb with a few points wouldn't enable the "vorpal" proc. I vote for converting Phase Step into an "Enable Vorpal Affects" trait, which did: 1) increases base VS damage by at least 50%; 2) enables the VS "vorpal" affect; and, 3) if another point can be rounded up, make point(1) a 50% proc rate (on a failed proc, VS still does enhanced base damage, but without the vorpal multiplier or the RoS buff) at normal enhanced damage, and point(2) gives a 100% guarantee of "vorpal" and adds another 25% to enhanced VS damage.
    (note: if we could farm a 3rd point, I'd use it to enable the "a true vorpal proc within EA, resets the timer on EA" feature).
    Now, there are already several good candidates for farming additional soul tree points from...

    In Conclusion, this would indeed make the harbinger a true "foreboding bringer of the pain and ruin"...and I, for one, would love to see that.

    ---

    Note: I hate it when people use names because they sound cool while completely disregarding the generally accepted meaning of the word. A vorpal attack has meant something very specific since the days of Dungeons and Dragons. Our vorpal, currently, is one in name only. "OFF with their heads!" That's what the really cool folks yell for when vengeance is our game.

    Note2: Also, I seriously wonder if the new changes to Phase Step were fully thought through? For instance, what happens, if the current battle state requires a Harb to use Phase Step for the attacks, and then conditions suddenly change, and the Harb must leap back out of melee range and pop Phantom Blades. What exactly happens in that scenario? Does Phantom trump Phase, or do the silly mechanics take precedence and port the Harb right back into melee? "<grrrr> me no likey this new Phase Step". I just found some good uses for the old, "new" Phase Step, and now this? Why?

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