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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: 2.8 Pyromancer - PTS

  1. #91
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    @Turrant: I think it is perfectly valid, since I am sure peolpe will voice their concerns regarding Pyromancer's defensive ability.
    Last edited by Katosu; 07-03-2014 at 07:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  2. #92
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    On second thought, since Vexare decided to annoy me in PM's.
    Spoiler!




    Moving on, Kervik, are you perhaps going to put Fireshield back into Pyromancer?
    Or perhaps another form of CC?
    Or is this not going to happen due to the changes in SC?
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu
    stuff
    that was a big wall of text, but sadly none of it really applies because I never once argued anything about raw damage numbers.

    You keep mentioning that damage numbers don't matter, and that they should be initially ignored and focus on the mechanics. I challenge you to find one statement from me complaining about pyros damage. The closest you will find is me replying to Ianto that the pts pyro burst is no better than the live burst. I have made several comments on functionality however, awkward rotation caused by SBolt travel time, ability to accidentally double tap IC to lose all your charge, dmg bonus from CD falling off as spells travel ect ect ect. And even if the numbers 'don't matter', that doesn't mean that feedback on those numbers isn't warranted. The numbers were already adjusted once, if nobody mentions that the numbers are still garbage, it is entirely possible for a dev to assume that the numbers are sufficient.

    I also argued several times in favor of a 1.5s fireball instead of a 2s fireball. Nowhere in that argument did raw damage come up, but rather a functionality issue that 2s in pvp is an eternity and the spell becomes volatile and sketchy as to it's usability as it becomes prone to LoS, interrupts, debilitates ect. All of my arguments were centered around mechanics and playstyle, and not once was specific damage numbers mentioned.

    So what exactly are you complaining about?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    that was a big wall of text, but sadly none of it really applies because I never once argued anything about raw damage numbers.
    That is because the argument iISN'T about you, it is about the complaints regarding damage numbers. It is what Ianto was referring to, and it was what I was referring to since I posted after him.
    You must be quite egocentric to believe a discussion about the community, is a discussion about you.

    So...that whole big wall of text where you discuss what you post, holds no relevance.


    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    So what exactly are you complaining about?
    Perhaps you should read the original post if you can no longer remember.
    Alternatively, you could place your foot within your mouth, or rather your hands.
    Last edited by Katosu; 07-03-2014 at 08:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  5. #95
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    Reading through the pages again, I didn't see anyone complain specifically that pyro dps was too low, the only comments regarding actual dps were those that are along the lines of...

    "If Pyro is to be a full-on turret spec, it will need either greatly superior damage or additional utility. Being totally immobile with no benefits makes little sense."

    So if your comments aren't towards me, and the community is also not bringing up specific damage numbers, then who are you talking to?

  6. #96
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    98% of all the ****posting in these two threads was "this kills pyro in pvp; kervik is the worst dev ever; make fireball 1s cast; let us cast on the move; casting is impossible; casting gives me heartburn; casting causes famines" -- either total garbage suggestions that would never happen or outright nonconstructive crying, usually that "fireball doesn't do enough damage". well, no **** it didn't. the spec was doing like 24k dps, thanks for letting us know that's bad.

    what pisses me off is that kervik actually reads these threads and all this *****ing and egotism is a total waste of his time

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post


    If Pyro is to be a full-on turret spec, it will need either greatly superior damage

    Glad we found the answer together Vexare.

    @Ianto: My suggestion is simply to PM him the information.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    Glad we found the answer together Vexare.

    @Ianto: My suggestion is simply to PM him the information.
    It is better if it is posted on the forums IMO. Other community members may find issues with/improvements to suggestions that Kervik may miss. Kervik ultimately decides which suggestions to work with anyway and there is no reason to miss opportunities because of people arguing.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    If Pyro is to be a full-on turret spec, it will need either greatly superior damage

    Glad we found the answer together Vexare.
    We point out that pyro's damage is under performing even after the first revamp, somehow this is unacceptable to you as we shouldn't worry at all and never mention dps and only talk about mechanics, and yet your solution to the whole problem has nothing to do with mechanics, but rather is to greatly increase our dps?

    If something is broken, we should talk about it; and that's exactly what we did. We pointed out all of the areas that we perceived to be flaws, and offered a variety of solutions, very few of which were so outrageous as to flat out not be considered. Our voices were heard and most all of our concerns were addressed. I fail to see how this makes the community toxic. The process functioned exactly as it should.

  10. #100
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    Spoiler!



    Moving on..I would like to see fire shield return.
    It was a useful way of providing the squishy Pyro some extra meat as it was health based.
    Last edited by Katosu; 07-03-2014 at 09:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    98% of all the ****posting in these two threads was "this kills pyro in pvp; kervik is the worst dev ever; make fireball 1s cast; let us cast on the move; casting is impossible; casting gives me heartburn; casting causes famines" -- either total garbage suggestions that would never happen or outright nonconstructive crying, usually that "fireball doesn't do enough damage". well, no **** it didn't. the spec was doing like 24k dps, thanks for letting us know that's bad.

    what pisses me off is that kervik actually reads these threads and all this *****ing and egotism is a total waste of his time
    I would assume people looking to have hybrid specs return wanting Fireball to play a larger role in the current PTS Pyro rotation is of relevance, thus they would continue to ask to have that buffed over other things.

    The burst potencial for pts Pyro was great even at first update and overall setup is less clunky. Some people want to be able to play specs like Pyro/Dom too, so there focus is on that and perhaps defensive and CC abilities.

    Overlooking those suggestions is about as myopic as thinking methylation issues and its epigenic cause of overall gut health don't play a role in someone's mental health.

    I don't find diatribes ragging on others opinions in these threads particularly productive especially when those people don't provide much of any feedback themselves.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Speaking of more buffs on the way, here's more of what should be hitting PTS probably next week at this point:
    • Accelerant is now a separate debuff from Countdown. Increased the duration of Accelerant to 10s.
    • Reduced the internal cooldown of Wildfire to 20s.
    • The buff from Wildfire now lasts 20s.
    • Fireball no longer consumes stacks of Pyromancer’s Fury while Heat Wave is active.
    • Reduced the cooldown of Fulminate to 30s.
    • Pyromancer’s Fury now also reduces the cast time of Fireball by 0.5s.
    • Increased the damage of Flame Volley, Countdown, Cinder Burst, Inferno and Searing Bolt.
    Thank you Kervik! I hope damage boost to Inferno is like 100%?

    Could you please also partly restore Pyrochon? The only thing you need to do is to swap the position of Spark and Accelerant/Heatwave. Then, 44 Archon/32 Pyro can get almost as effective as live Pyrochon, but it will also have nerfs that (I hope) were needed - no more CD reset & double Lava Field and longer cast time of its abilities.

    @Ianto - 98% people complained about:
    - 2 second cast time of Fireball (not casts in general) because it is actually that bad. Don't think of pre-SL pyro, think about Pyro 2.0-2.2. It was addressed because people did complain about it. If nobody mentioned it, we would still have these 2 sec cast times.
    - Accelerant tied to Countdown and with short uptime. This was addressed too.
    - Lack of mobility/survivability which will still hurt this spec. While Pyro with the latest changes can be viable in PVP, we get one more support damaging spec that needs a team to cover and heals attached to it because it can't handle enemies, especially melee, himself.
    Last edited by VolsalexR; 07-03-2014 at 10:33 PM.

  13. #103
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    Spoiler!

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Speaking of more buffs on the way, here's more of what should be hitting PTS probably next week at this point:
    • Accelerant is now a separate debuff from Countdown. Increased the duration of Accelerant to 10s.
    • Reduced the internal cooldown of Wildfire to 20s.
    • The buff from Wildfire now lasts 20s.
    • Fireball no longer consumes stacks of Pyromancer’s Fury while Heat Wave is active.
    • Reduced the cooldown of Fulminate to 30s.
    • Pyromancer’s Fury now also reduces the cast time of Fireball by 0.5s.
    • Increased the damage of Flame Volley, Countdown, Cinder Burst, Inferno and Searing Bolt.
    Hi there !

    Well, I think our rotation will be smoother now. I tried the last changes and it was already better and DPS gain was there. Actually, with the last changes that hit the PTS, i found the dps gain really great.

    However, I only tested on dummies and was still thinking we needed a shorter casting time for Fireball to be able to be efficient in both pve and pvp.

    With the last changes coming for our soul, I will be a very happy pyro. Rotation will become even smoother, we will be able to scale Fulminate within our burst rotation and Heat wave burst will be more robust. However, I am not sure the last proposal line is a good thing, except for Inferno.

    [*]Increased the damage of Flame Volley, Countdown, Cinder Burst, Inferno and Searing Bolt.

    Correctly playing the rotation is currently giving us a really good dps upgrade with the latest changes. As already said, Coutndown-> Searing Bolt> Firebolt > CB if proc or Fulminate can already be a pretty good dps burst, regarding pvp. Everything seems ok for me. Increasing damage of Flame Volley, Countdown, CB, and Searing Bolt could lead us to a to big dps improvement and having all other classes QQ about pyro.

    It already happened. I do not want to have some upgrades to Pyro Soul to see them nerfed 2 weeks later because everyone find us too OP...

    It just is my opinion. With the latest changes, I feel playing a correct rotation with pyro was far more rewarding than the current live version. It is what I wanted. I feel I can correctly scale with warriors and rogues, playing my favorite soul. But I don't necessary want to be the best and see so much QQ that nerfs would eventually happen.

    Anyway, thx for your work Kervick. ;)
    Last edited by Phox; 07-03-2014 at 10:39 PM.

  15. #105
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    Actually Vols, I believe you can put points into stormcaller so you can pick up RTW. Assuming the SC update lands befoer the Pyro one, that will bring quite a bit of mobility.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

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