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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: 2.8 Pyromancer - PTS

  1. #61
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    ok, so most ppl want:
    - no clunky aegis mechanic
    - good burst in pvp and pve
    - high mobility for pvp
    - best range dps, better than warlock
    - not a 3 button spec but not 12 button one either

    the current pyro has none of that because:
    - bad burst in pve because everything has to be used as fillers
    - mobility is mediocre at best
    - dps could never exceed warlock even buffed
    - piano man playstyle

    the new pyro has everything except mobility.

    the big argument is that you cant kite with the new pyro, but are you really able to do that with the current one?
    how is it possible to kite with all the gap closers, high movement and good dps at range from most melee specs?
    Woops I missed this post. And yes that is a good summary of it. Melee have all those gap closers and whatnot because of things Mages got, like Extinguish. If they didn't have them, nobody would play anything but Pyro. That's the whole point. We've been on this slippery slope for a very long time.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Look at all the other souls that can play like Pyro does with full mobility. Look at MM, Inq, Ranger, and Tempest. Do any of them come anywhere near the kind of damage and burst that Pyro is putting out? No, they do not (in fact MM, Tempest, and I think maybe Inq all have PvP-specific nerfs placed on some abilities). Pyro has top-tier damage and gives up nothing. You never have to stop running, you never run out of mana, you never get interrupted.

    The spec is essentially having its strengths-to-weaknesses ratio completely redone. It's losing existing weaknesses and gaining others. It's losing existing strengths and gaining others.
    Seeing as you constantly state that Pyro is OP, I'd like to ask one thing. What is this?
    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...ower-pyro.html
    It was several months ago, but the only things that were changed for Pyro are the removal of shared CD and off-GCD Inferno (I don't take CB proc into account with 5% chance and RNG), were they such a huge PVP buff that it made Pyro so OP? Why did you change your opinion that much?

    Though you should be right about the reasons melee are so overpow... very powerful now. However, you think than if Pyro gets nerfed it will cause chain reaction and Warrior/Rogue melee will be nerfed too. You hope this will happen, but Daglar only stated that some souls will get changed and didn't give any promises to nerf melee specs. Even if they will get nerfed, that won't happpen immediately and Mages will suffer sever weeks/months again.

    And you strongly underestimate Inq. I can't state for Rogue/Warrior ranged souls, but while Inq has a weaker burst, it also has its own strengths that Pyro hasn't access to (good purge, survivability, superior mobility).
    Last edited by VolsalexR; 07-03-2014 at 11:40 AM.

  3. #63
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Warlords were nerfed, and Inferno coming off the GCD and having its damage nearly doubled was a huge buff.

    But the fact is that a lot of 61 Pyro's problems remain. They are endemic to the soul design, because it's just a patchwork of knee-jerk buffs sewn together over a year or so. The 2 minute CD burst is borderline OP. The sustained DPS and the raw damage on individual abilities, however, is low, but neither can be brought up because of that CD reset on Heat Wave. Likewise for the frequency of its burst phase. The gameplay is unintuitive, with ability cooldowns that are all over the place and no real interaction between any of the individual skills.

    You all give Kervik way too little credit.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 07-03-2014 at 11:52 AM.

  4. #64
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    PTS update: Haha um. These fireballs.
    Can't wait to pvp with these; we're going to be a pretty big threat >

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    You all give Kervik way too little credit.
    And you underestimate the living hell that is casting with a 2s cast time in the current pvp environment. There are plenty enough debilitates/interupts such that even if it's overall dummy damage is tuned to an 'acceptable' level, it's pvp output will be garbage because it does not have sufficient time to utilize it's abilities. You HOPE that by reducing mage movement capability, that it will reverse the trend of giving melee classes more and more gap closers / ranged disconnect abilities, but there is no proof that any of that will actually happen. The pts pyro just lost it's mobility, and a good portion of it's defensive abilities, essentially turning the spec into a sitting duck to be killed at will. If there is not an offset in the form of a significant dps increase over the current pyro (highly unlikely) then it ends up being a gigantic nerf for pvp.

    As for the SS's of your KB count, I honestly have no idea what you were trying to prove? For the exact same reason that 99.9% of SSs or videos prove nothing. Because you can pick and choose which you post out of hundreds or thousands of matches and select the ones that show evidence in your favor. Were you trying to show that a spec that will soon no longer exist was a good spec? or the fact that turrets work? (even though it casts nearly twice as fast as new pyro), and to claim that they were complete routes where you had no supporting dps is a joke, half of the matches your team had more kb's, sometimes significantly more kb's to the tune of 55-19 in one of them, the only difference is your team focused on kills instead of objectives. Additionally even if it is a route, in domination matches such as karthan you can pick an objective and solo anyone who attempts to retake it and avoid the center area where the route is occurring entirely and focus on killing the stragglers that attempt to retake your obj which means you will always have an awesome personal score, but still lose the match.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    And you underestimate the living hell that is casting with a 2s cast time in the current pvp environment. There are plenty enough debilitates/interupts such that even if it's overall dummy damage is tuned to an 'acceptable' level, it's pvp output will be garbage because it does not have sufficient time to utilize it's abilities. You HOPE that by reducing mage movement capability, that it will reverse the trend of giving melee classes more and more gap closers / ranged disconnect abilities, but there is no proof that any of that will actually happen. The pts pyro just lost it's mobility, and a good portion of it's defensive abilities, essentially turning the spec into a sitting duck to be killed at will. If there is not an offset in the form of a significant dps increase over the current pyro (highly unlikely) then it ends up being a gigantic nerf for pvp.

    As for the SS's of your KB count, I honestly have no idea what you were trying to prove? For the exact same reason that 99.9% of SSs or videos prove nothing. Because you can pick and choose which you post out of hundreds or thousands of matches and select the ones that show evidence in your favor. Were you trying to show that a spec that will soon no longer exist was a good spec? or the fact that turrets work? (even though it casts nearly twice as fast as new pyro), and to claim that they were complete routes where you had no supporting dps is a joke, half of the matches your team had more kb's, sometimes significantly more kb's to the tune of 55-19 in one of them, the only difference is your team focused on kills instead of objectives. Additionally even if it is a route, in domination matches such as karthan you can pick an objective and solo anyone who attempts to retake it and avoid the center area where the route is occurring entirely and focus on killing the stragglers that attempt to retake your obj which means you will always have an awesome personal score, but still lose the match.
    If you haven't today, seriously, go to the pts now with the newest changes. Internalize charge + countdown + fusillade + searing bolt with a possible CBon top is pretty ridiculous burst.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    - bad burst in pve because everything has to be used as fillers
    I wouldn't say that was the issue.
    For them, it was a matter of target switching.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constants View Post
    PTS update: Haha um. These fireballs.
    Can't wait to pvp with these; we're going to be a pretty big threat >
    specially when good players interrupt you , stun you, silence you and you with 2s cast fireball gonna be assassinated by assassin and many others good dps souls good luck and enjoy WF. If you think pvp is just dps you are very very wrong.
    Last edited by elfaraon; 07-03-2014 at 12:53 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    I wouldn't say that was the issue.
    For them, it was a matter of target switching.
    That and sustaining DPS due to rotation based around Aegis fireballs.

  10. #70
    RIFT Guide Writer IllusiveEQ's Avatar
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    So, I finally got around to playing with the new pyro.

    My feedback


    ST rotation feels clunky, we should not have to maintain 3 short term buffs (countdown/flamebolt/internalize charge) to deal max dps. In essence we have to cast 3 buff/debuffs every 8 seconds. That is not fun. We get a short 6 second window to actually deal damage before having to re-apply the same buff/debuffs, even less when searing bolt is taken into account. Which screws up the rotation.

    Suggestion, increase the buff timer from flamebolt to 30 seconds. Then the spec becomes about maintaining countdown & IC

    I like the new fusillade a welcome change to the ability, machine gun fireballs someone else coined the term and I think it a good description.

    I like the way charge is maintained with the new revamp. Its akin to stormcaller's build/consume charge via lightning field & static flux, instead we use cinderburst and internalize charge.

    I like the improved target switching.


    AOE -

    The spreading of countdown via firestorm on paper is nice but in reality it needs to be changed.

    It doesn't feel right having to use two single target abilities (flame bolt & contdown) before being able to use firestorm. The rotation ends up ST>ST> AOE. It seems wrong to have to use two st abilities in an AOE rotation.

    Suggestion give us backdraft back, and make it automatically apply countdown & flame bolt to 5 targets on a 8 second cooldown. (no need to have a stun component)

    Then the aoe rotation would be backdraft > firestorm > ect.
    Last edited by IllusiveEQ; 07-03-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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  11. #71
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    As for the SS's of your KB count, I honestly have no idea what you were trying to prove?
    If you're not going to read my posts I'm not going to bother reading yours, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constants View Post
    If you haven't today, seriously, go to the pts now with the newest changes. Internalize charge + countdown + fusillade + searing bolt with a possible CBon top is pretty ridiculous burst.
    Indeed. The burst potential is pretty crazy. But of course, everyone ignores that because QQQQQQQQQ. Countdown, Searing Bolt, Cinderburst, Flame Bolt all hitting together is a ton of damage every 15 seconds, not to mention Fulminate and Fusillade. Pretty sure there are more buffs on the way, too, because the spec is still underperforming.

  12.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #72
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    Speaking of more buffs on the way, here's more of what should be hitting PTS probably next week at this point:
    • Accelerant is now a separate debuff from Countdown. Increased the duration of Accelerant to 10s.
    • Reduced the internal cooldown of Wildfire to 20s.
    • The buff from Wildfire now lasts 20s.
    • Fireball no longer consumes stacks of Pyromancer’s Fury while Heat Wave is active.
    • Reduced the cooldown of Fulminate to 30s.
    • Pyromancer’s Fury now also reduces the cast time of Fireball by 0.5s.
    • Increased the damage of Flame Volley, Countdown, Cinder Burst, Inferno and Searing Bolt.

  13. #73
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Speak to be mage pros are these good pvp changes? I haven't been on pts at all

  14. #74
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    Swapping to my mage when these go live.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Speaking of more buffs on the way, here's more of what should be hitting PTS probably next week at this point:
    • Accelerant is now a separate debuff from Countdown. Increased the duration of Accelerant to 10s.
    • Reduced the internal cooldown of Wildfire to 20s.
    • The buff from Wildfire now lasts 20s.
    • Fireball no longer consumes stacks of Pyromancer’s Fury while Heat Wave is active.
    • Reduced the cooldown of Fulminate to 30s.
    • Pyromancer’s Fury now also reduces the cast time of Fireball by 0.5s.
    • Increased the damage of Flame Volley, Countdown, Cinder Burst, Inferno and Searing Bolt.
    These changes look very promising. *Downloading PTS client*

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