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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: 2.8 Pyromancer - PTS

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    If you think Warlock's such great mobility, I would love to see you try kiting someone with it in PVP.
    I would literally have had thousands of KBs using Warlock in PvP.

    Dots>Void Barrage>dead

    All while on the move.
    Last edited by Tookmyjob; 07-02-2014 at 06:45 PM.

  2. #47
    Plane Touched zasen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Sometimes this forum puts me on the brink of building a new PC for the sole purpose of showing you lot how it's done. I'll have to settle for screenshots.

    http://i.imgur.com/3F5k7TX.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/HJUTH5n.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/pGMwtpJ.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/aFX2D33.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/6kpHzm5.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/VwjoICk.jpg

    and these are the losing matches. let me know if you want to see what it's like when i win.
    not quite sure what you;re trying to prove, you can macro everything into a button with pyrchon and get kills all day long nothing hits harder we all know, sometimes i feel like you think you;ve discovered some secret spec that no one has played before. also those games look pretty even btw.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    I would literally have had thousands of KBs using Warlock in PvP.

    Dots>Void Barrage>dead

    All while on the move.
    Dots>Void Barrage>Debilitated>dead

    fixed it for ya

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    Does this mean that you are amenable to adding additional survivability and utility to make pyro effective in PvP?

    Some suggestions in that regard:
    An ability that makes the next fire ability within 10 seconds instant cast (30 sec CD or something)
    A survivability cooldown - eg. a 50% max HP shield or heal, a 100% dodge chance etc. Preferably it would be most effective against melee as melee will undoubtedly be the biggest issue.
    A reduction on the cooldown of Burning Bonds.
    A return of the AE stun.



    If Pyro is to be a full-on turret spec, it will need either greatly superior damage or additional utility. Being totally immobile with no benefits makes little sense.
    It makes perfect sense when your not thinking about the pvp aspect of it. There is no way in hell these changes are for pvp in any way. The only way this could work is if you have insane damage with it. Even then having a melee running circles around you pulling, stunning, snaring, and interrupting everything you cast, it just is not going to work. you cant get distance between you and melee your dead quick...
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  5. #50
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zasen View Post
    not quite sure what you;re trying to prove, you can macro everything into a button with pyrchon and get kills all day long nothing hits harder we all know, sometimes i feel like you think you;ve discovered some secret spec that no one has played before. also those games look pretty even btw.
    Same thing he was trying to prove posting a couple of 9-month-old videos of someone hopping around spamming Extinguish Fireballs and Wildfire procs. The dude literally never stopped running and went 20-0 in a curbstomp match which, allegedly, you can't do with a caster spec. Or, maybe all that movement is unnecessary and maybe screenshots and videos are poor evidence to submit in the court of class balance. And no most of those matches weren't pretty even, most of them were total routs where I had no supporting DPS.

    And I'm not sure what you're talking about macro'ing it all into a button, that's as dumb in Pyrochon as it is in 61 Pyro and you're terrible if that's how you play it.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 07-02-2014 at 07:43 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    And I'm not sure what you're talking about macro'ing it all into a button, that's as dumb in Pyrochon as it is in 61 Pyro and you're terrible if that's how you play it.
    Im usually not the type that jumps into a discussion but when i see something this ridiculous i just cant hold myself back.

    Youre comparing spec that lends itself to macroing basically anything into a single button with a spec will completely be ruined by macroing anything at all. And you know this. Youre really not helping your case here.
    Please dont get me wrong, i agree that macroing pyrochon completely into 1 button is bad. I dont do it and neither should anyone else. But it is a fact that you have a big spam macro as a pyrochon.
    And doing so will still allow you to run a very efficient support spec. I think even a 1 button necromentalist will be inifinitely superior to a 1 button pyro.
    Im sorry but considering who it comes from that statement may really be one of the most ridiculous things ive ever read on these forums.

    </rant>
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Sometimes this forum puts me on the brink of building a new PC for the sole purpose of showing you lot how it's done. I'll have to settle for screenshots.

    http://i.imgur.com/3F5k7TX.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/HJUTH5n.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/pGMwtpJ.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/aFX2D33.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/6kpHzm5.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/VwjoICk.jpg

    and these are the losing matches. let me know if you want to see what it's like when i win.
    I`m not denying that you can do some serious dps/kb with pyrochon. All I said is that current 61 pyro is superior in terms of mobility compared to pyrochon or PTS pyro. And we are gonna lose that mobility for the reason I don't understand.
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  8. #53
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    Saying pyrochon proves turrets are fine is silly.

    It casts almost twice as fast as the new pyro, of course it can still do ok.

    I'm not asking for instant casts, just shorter ones, 2 seconds is a longer cast time than most heals, they can cast an entire heal between fireballs.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    extinguish (or instand fireballs) didnt help pyro because it made it a fake mobile spec. current pyro is considered a mobile spec but in reality its the worst range spec in game when it comes to mobility.

    since we already have a great, mobile spec called warlock, we not need another one. it is much better to sacrifice mobility for superior dps.

    having 2s or 1.5s casted fireballs may be arguable but instant ones not. i think kervik already said it.
    This is the most backward thing I have read in any post in the past month at least.
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  10. #55
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    With the changes the now on PTS.
    Using 61 Pyromancer, 10 Stormcaller, 5 Harbinger I was getting around 26.3k.
    Stormcaller: 5 Storm Energy, 5 Cyclogensis

    http://i.imgur.com/KopdTlQ.png

    That's a 4k improvement from the original version.
    Also no issues with mana, you can last for 6 minutes.
    Last edited by Burninalways; 07-03-2014 at 11:01 AM. Reason: mana
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  11. #56
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    ok, so most ppl want:
    - no clunky aegis mechanic
    - good burst in pvp and pve
    - high mobility for pvp
    - best range dps, better than warlock
    - not a 3 button spec but not 12 button one either

    the current pyro has none of that because:
    - bad burst in pve because everything has to be used as fillers
    - mobility is mediocre at best
    - dps could never exceed warlock even buffed
    - piano man playstyle

    the new pyro has everything except mobility.

    the big argument is that you cant kite with the new pyro, but are you really able to do that with the current one?
    how is it possible to kite with all the gap closers, high movement and good dps at range from most melee specs?

  12. #57
    Plane Walker Alastair's Avatar
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    1.5s fireballs pls kervik

  13. #58
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    2s cast on fireball is the worst idea I have seen in almost 3 years playing this soul . And we don't get any compensation like passive defense , good shield or something useful. Kervik do you understand mages have the worst defense in rift? do you understand that before finishing to cast the second fireball(4seconds) we the mages will be dead specially against your favorite and OP melee like paragon/assassin/shamman and even ranger etc etc? 2 s cast on our best filler and dps spell is the worst idea you ever had. 1.5s is a huge disadvantage in pvp 2s is a DISASTER. For pve is the same there are many fight where we have to move a lot and pyro 61 will be useless for those fights. Honestly 2s cast on fireball is a joke. It should be 1s at most 1.5s that's it. Pyro is extremely weak because its a soul that have zero defense abilities, check warlord for more details about what kind of defense is needed on pvp.
    Last edited by elfaraon; 07-03-2014 at 11:11 AM.

  14. #59
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paschl View Post
    But it is a fact that you have a big spam macro as a pyrochon.
    Only in PvE. This is a discussion about PvP. You can see my action bars in all of those screenshots. Do you see any spam macros? Of course not. If you have a spam macro then you can't make decisions in response to dynamic situations about which skill to use. If someone's 31m away with 2% HP and running, and I hit my macro and it goes to Earthen Barrage instead of Fireball, that's stupid and I'm an idiot. If I'm spamming my macro and wasting all my Wildfire procs instead of tossing Fireballs, I'm not going to have them when I need to chase someone down.

    Pyrochon only "lends itself to macroing everything" in PvE or if you're being lazy and playing the spec sub-optimally. And if you're playing sub-optimally you have no room to complain about viability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokken` View Post
    I`m not denying that you can do some serious dps/kb with pyrochon. All I said is that current 61 pyro is superior in terms of mobility compared to pyrochon or PTS pyro. And we are gonna lose that mobility for the reason I don't understand.
    Look at all the other souls that can play like Pyro does with full mobility. Look at MM, Inq, Ranger, and Tempest. Do any of them come anywhere near the kind of damage and burst that Pyro is putting out? No, they do not (in fact MM, Tempest, and I think maybe Inq all have PvP-specific nerfs placed on some abilities). Pyro has top-tier damage and gives up nothing. You never have to stop running, you never run out of mana, you never get interrupted.

    The spec is essentially having its strengths-to-weaknesses ratio completely redone. It's losing existing weaknesses and gaining others. It's losing existing strengths and gaining others.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 07-03-2014 at 11:12 AM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Only in PvE. This is a discussion about PvP. You can see my action bars in all of those screenshots. Do you see any spam macros? Of course not. If you have a spam macro then you can't make decisions in response to dynamic situations about which skill to use. If someone's 31m away with 2% HP and running, and I hit my macro and it goes to Earthen Barrage instead of Fireball, that's stupid and I'm an idiot. If I'm spamming my macro and wasting all my Wildfire procs instead of tossing Fireballs, I'm not going to have them when I need to chase someone down.

    Pyrochon only "lends itself to macroing everything" in PvE or if you're being lazy and playing the spec sub-optimally. And if you're playing sub-optimally you have no room to complain about viability.



    Look at all the other souls that can play like Pyro does with full mobility. Look at MM, Inq, Ranger, and Tempest. Do any of them come anywhere near the kind of damage and burst that Pyro is putting out? No, they do not (in fact MM, Tempest, and I think maybe Inq all have PvP-specific nerfs placed on some abilities). Pyro has top-tier damage and gives up nothing. You never have to stop running, you never run out of mana, you never get interrupted.

    The spec is essentially having its strengths-to-weaknesses ratio completely redone. It's losing existing weaknesses and gaining others. It's losing existing strengths and gaining others.

    are you real? how you can say that ranger for example a very underrated soul cant have the burst of pyro. Dude if you don't know how to play ranger or others souls is your problem. Assasin/warlord /paragon and even ranger can have the same burst of pyro or even more with much more defense. I have been playing pyro for years and I know 100% what im talking about. Assasin for example have more burst that pyro maybe pyro can keep up the dps but in 10s assassin beat pyro burst anytime. And don't come and tell me that I don't know how to play Pyro leaderboard show that I play pyro very very good. Many many times I finish WFs being top dps and top kills with 61 pyro I know what im talking about. Do you understand that pyro has crap defense compared to the souls you mentioned also? And many of those souls are 1 button macro with high dps , if you macro everything with pyro you will fail badly.
    Last edited by elfaraon; 07-03-2014 at 11:22 AM.

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