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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: 2.8 Pyromancer - PTS

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    since we already have a great, mobile spec called warlock, we not need another one. it is much better to sacrifice mobility for superior dps.
    If you think Warlock's such great mobility, I would love to see you try kiting someone with it in PVP.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    I think the mobile fusillade cast was unnecessary, it's a cooldown, part of cooldowns is choosing the right time to use them. The need to be immobile 60% or more of the time just to do your basic rotation is crippling in both pve and pvp. Current raid boss design doesn't allow a turret spec to shine, pyrochon only gets away with it by virtue of 1.5s or less cast times, and being a support spec.

    Other than kaliban in GA, I can't think of a boss fight that wouldn't cause the new pyro to suck.
    TDQ -
    Zoles - you're probably not casting when moving between void spawns and some don't even bother with them.
    Cyril is a stand and burn fight.
    Jultharin - does anyone even move out of the way of sparks anymore? Stand and Burn fight.
    Typhiria is a stand and burn fight for the majority of it could save up your channels towards the end to kill her off while running.

    IDH
    Jorb - stand and burn
    Joloral - stand and burn
    Iksal - burn phases last 20-30s, dps during toilet bowl is minor for anyone, rain dance would be an issue
    Hydriss - most of it is stand and burn

    FT-
    Gelidra - limited movement needed
    Zaviel - first half of fight is stand still, 2nd half is a stutter step
    Twins - you want AE anyways but if you're target swapping yeah you're just standing there

    EE
    Kain - no movement at all except between the minibosses and Kain himself.
    Matriarch - you only move if you get spore
    Goloch - you stand still about 50% of the fight only dodging red and moving in and out of max melee, plus you need one pryo to gimp glimpse. If you're good you could do it.
    Regulous - you're standing still except in limited aspects and even during those movements not even Locks get off more than a cast or 2.

    GA
    Kaliban as you said.

    PBB
    Egg Tenders since you only move every 20s, and between Tenders. Given the Burst and Range it could be readily used on the eggs themselves as you'd just have to turn without moving.

    IF
    Breaker - could be done as you do actually have a lot of time to stand. Probably wouldn't be the best though.

    These are the bosses I've done and thinking about it, excepting FT Twins and Progenitor it would not be that bad as long as I learned the rotation sufficiently.
    Remember there is more than just T2\T3 to think upon.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    I think the mobile fusillade cast was unnecessary, it's a cooldown, part of cooldowns is choosing the right time to use them.
    Not using a cooldown is a DPS loss in situations warranting its immediate use.
    It would be like holding off on Empyrean Ascension.


    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Current raid boss design doesn't allow a turret spec to shine, pyrochon only gets away with it by virtue of 1.5s or less cast times, and being a support spec.
    Other than kaliban in GA, I can't think of a boss fight that wouldn't cause the new pyro to suck.
    Most bosses let you sit there and pyew pyew.
    No idea about t3. haven't done it.
    Guildies not good enough.
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    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  4. #34
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    I'm really unhappy with these changes, as I've seen many others are as well. The skillcap on Live pyro is perfect, but the damage isn't rewarded, honestly I'd be fine with Live pyro just gaining a damage PvE buff, and slight defensive PvP buffs, but we're getting a revamp regardless.. So the feedback towards making this better is important.

    Since the damage on live pyro is bad, some mobility needed to be removed to add more damage, I can accept this. Mobility should not be priority in a turret spec, so wildfire flamebolt procs should do less damage than fireballs. You should be encouraged to save them for movement phases, and refresh for the 10% damage buff only, not to blow them immediately.

    The current cast time of fireball is atrocious. The spec currently feels very clunky and doesn't require any type of managing, which is a big change. My suggestion is that as you gain fury stacks, you also get lower cast times for fireballs, 'heating up' makes sense here, and would help out with the damage. This, or give Internalize Charge a cast time reduction. Heat wave currently cuts cast times by 50%, so in essence with HW up, you could have instant fireballs every GCD, which is the other alternative pyro would have for movement besides wildfire flamebolts / flame volley. It makes up for not having extinguish, but isn't as mobile as before, it's a safe middleground.

    If we're reworking a soul, add something new. Give us.. a meteor spell. Blazing fire escape talent with flicker that disarms or does damage. Anything. Don't just dumb down the spec, make it more exciting to use, something to look forward to.

    The amount of skills/fillers is way too low, I dragged a lot of abilities off my bar from old 61 pyro. The spec went from one of the most complex and interesting roles to one of the most dumbed down boring specs. I agree with the others that Backdraft should come back. I am happy that the interrupt is finally oGCD. In terms of PvP utility, burning shield should have a new use, rather than an insignificant little damage shield that is more useful for charge gain than anything. It should reflect 50% damage taken back, "burning" the enemies, for 2-3 seconds. Enemies can continue hurting themselves or simply stop for a short time. Considering how squishy/turret styled the spec is it definitely needs something like that. It can have a longer cooldown to ensure it needs to be used properly to get the best use out of it and not just spammed. Also would be a nice reactive pace for PvE.

    Cooldowns/values/whatever can be changed, but these are ideas that need to be put out there if we're going to have a spec that's actually going to be used as a 61 role in PvP and PvE that people are happy with.
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  5. #35
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    Just going to continue calling BS that "it's not viable" to cast. If this were the case nobody would bring Chloros to raids, either, or Purifier. You can stand still and pewpew on almost every raid fight in the game. Fights today are no more movement-intensive than they were before SL when Pyro was top DPS.

    In PvP it's a valid concern. Spec Ignite and kite back to your team instead of being bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    If you think Warlock's such great mobility, I would love to see you try kiting someone with it in PVP.
    That's a matter of melee specs needing nerfs. 0pt pulls, 30m range charges, passive / uncleansable snares, Grasp the Horizon and Phantom Blades, etc. Taking this logic of "we HAVE TO HAVE everything instant / fully mobile" to its conclusion every soul would wind up completely homogenous. We've already moved very far in that direction. Melee specs were largely useless for much of Storm Legion, and their gaining these tools was in direct response to additional mobility, range, and versatility that was added to Pyro, Inq, Marksman, Tempest, etc.

    And I kite people just fine with Pyrochon, btw, without 3-4 CC breaks and RtW or any instant spammables.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    since we already have a great, mobile spec called warlock, we not need another one. it is much better to sacrifice mobility for superior dps.
    ... which is very effective in PVP and lots of Mages play it there...
    (Sorry, could not hold myself from posting a bit sarcastic response).
    In PvP it's a valid concern. Spec Ignite and kite back to your team instead of being bad.
    Ignite is terrible. It does less dps than Thunder Shock with 3 x Electiry stacks (its only benefit is that it procs CB proc) , and does about 30-35% of turret dps which is too low even for a complete turret spec. So, melee deal at least 50% of their dps at range, have powerful ranged CDs, and Pyro has to deal ~30% on the move simply because "deal with it"?

    That's a matter of melee specs needing nerfs. 0pt pulls, 30m range charges, passive / uncleansable snares, Grasp the Horizon and Phantom Blades, etc. Taking this logic of "we HAVE TO HAVE everything instant / fully mobile" to its conclusion every soul would wind up completely homogenous. We've already moved very far in that direction. Melee specs were largely useless for much of Storm Legion, and their gaining these tools was in direct response to additional mobility, range, and versatility that was added to Pyro, Inq, Marksman, Tempest, etc.
    Once again, I don't see any steps to nerfing melee specs (outside of Warlord and I'm sure it will be compensated). The only thing that will happen is that Pyro will get the state which it had in 2.0-2.2 and will get rarely if ever used.

    And I kite people just fine with Pyrochon, btw, without 3-4 CC breaks and RtW or any instant spammables.
    Flowing Sands that don't require Charge? Constant 15% movement speed boost from Spark Shower? 12% damage reduction from Wellspring? 1.2-1.6 sec cast time vs 2 sec?
    Last edited by VolsalexR; 07-02-2014 at 12:33 PM.

  7. #37
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Ignite is terrible, as any instant spammable fire spell should be in a turret spec.

    And I haven't denied that Pyro needs a lot of work on the PvP side. That work does not need to involve making everything castable on the move and instant.

  8. #38
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    It doesn't have to have every ability on the move and instant, agreed. But, mage is the only of 4 classes in the game that has to deal with a lot of cast times for dps. Sure, you have warlock. With its cleansable dots making up a fair bit of its damage. Fine in pve, sucks in pvp if the other team has a cleanse happy healer (like I am on my healers). I'm sure some other callings have some cast times somewhere, but on their main dps skills that make up a large majority of their ideal rotations? That's a mage only concern so far as I've experienced. Longer cast times should = more damage. I don't really care if it breaks the melee>range thing, as that's already broken by warlock vs harbinger (debatable, but I've seen enough parses to convince me of its veracity).

    One can argue all they want that melee has to deal with more mechanics because they're not ranged. But if you're ranged, and can't dodge mechanics without sacrificing whatever cast is happening currently? Guess what - you're dealing with mechanics as a ranged class, and should get better output to compensate and/or defenses for eating extra damage.

    I don't do pyro myself, I've never found it interesting. I generally use harb, I'm learning warlock, I'm playing around some with arbiter, I'm decent on chloro. For pyro itself, I don't have a dog in this fight. But I'm not happy with the updates I'm seeing to mages in general. While warriors run around with tons of health, mitigation, and high damage; and rogues are super mobile with high damage, mages just feel second rate, or worse.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    And I kite people just fine with Pyrochon, btw, without 3-4 CC breaks and RtW or any instant spammables.
    Try that with Pyrochon or new Pyro.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...l-wf-vids.html
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post

    And I kite people just fine with Pyrochon, btw, without 3-4 CC breaks and RtW or any instant spammables.
    Pyrochon already has 3 CC breaks and speed boosts. Flowing Sands, 2x Flicker, and break free.
    Last edited by evantide; 07-02-2014 at 01:36 PM.
    Meciel - Mage - Defer Death - Greybriar
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  11. #41
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    Only a 20% buff to Fireball?

    I was expecting atleast 2x to be honest. It is no where near in relative ratio to where Fireball was before SL even.

    I am not crying for every ability to be mobile, it doesn't need to be for people to do well. Just for the ability to be worth casting dps wise to compensate for constant mis-casts for having to preposition, sometimes mid cast while playing.

    PS: Bring back Lockdown

  12. #42
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    Why would you want to be able to macro like a rogue or warrior?

    That is one of the worst things about those callings.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    Why would you want to be able to macro like a rogue or warrior?

    That is one of the worst things about those callings.
    I did notice someone posted a horrible macro is the last thread. It is not possible to do "proper" burst if you are using up a lot of your abilities just macro mashing with pyro's current current pts form.

  14. #44
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokken` View Post
    Try that with Pyrochon or new Pyro.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...l-wf-vids.html
    Sometimes this forum puts me on the brink of building a new PC for the sole purpose of showing you lot how it's done. I'll have to settle for screenshots.

    http://i.imgur.com/3F5k7TX.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/HJUTH5n.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/pGMwtpJ.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/aFX2D33.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/6kpHzm5.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/VwjoICk.jpg

    and these are the losing matches. let me know if you want to see what it's like when i win.

  15. #45
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    I cant sleep so i decided to test pyro a little.
    These were taken selfbuffed with live gear (T2 + T3 shoulders) outside of the dummy foundry.
    Note that this parse uses a bad rotation (stopped when all cds were ready again) with bad ping on a most likely suboptimal spec (61pyro/13sc/2dom). 16% crit is also kinda ****ty.

    http://i.imgur.com/cH8zH53.png http://i.imgur.com/IlPUMlc.png
    Last edited by paschl; 07-02-2014 at 06:35 PM.
    killings - Mage - Apotheosys - Typhiria

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