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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: 2.8 Pyromancer - PTS

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    I don't think its good idea, because it would force us to play 61 Pyro.
    And many of us would like as much hybrids as possible.
    When you spend ~40 points in to Pyro for a hybrid build you will still have that +20% dmg buff which Kervik propese. However when you go full Pyro there will be additional ~10% dmg boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    You do realize that even the buffed fireball proposed in this change still makes fireball (without fury) be weaker than current live fireballs, right?
    It's a good way to start, dmg can always be increased in the upcoming patches if new Pyro will be worse than planned.
    Last edited by Otts; 07-01-2014 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    As an additional note, I don't intend this to be anything like a final pass on the soul. I have some additional changes in mind that I'll be working on adding later this week, but I wanted to get at least the ones posted on their way.
    Does this mean that you are amenable to adding additional survivability and utility to make pyro effective in PvP?

    Some suggestions in that regard:
    An ability that makes the next fire ability within 10 seconds instant cast (30 sec CD or something)
    A survivability cooldown - eg. a 50% max HP shield or heal, a 100% dodge chance etc. Preferably it would be most effective against melee as melee will undoubtedly be the biggest issue.
    A reduction on the cooldown of Burning Bonds.
    A return of the AE stun.



    If Pyro is to be a full-on turret spec, it will need either greatly superior damage or additional utility. Being totally immobile with no benefits makes little sense.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    How about the ability to cast fireballs while moving. I'm sure after years of casting fireballs pyromancers have perfected the art and improved it to that point.
    I would second this suggestion.

    It will still be highly interrupt-able.
    It is still a 2s long cast.

    If its considered too good, give a slight movement speed penalty when casting while moving. 20% maybe?

  4. #19
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    Will copy my post from the previous thread with several modifications:

    General suggestions:
    - Accelerant made a separate debuff/buff and its duration increased to 10+ seconds.
    - Several people want Backdraft back.
    - Please return Inferno at least to its previous level.

    My own suggestions:
    - Heatwave now makes Fireball castable on the move and prevents it from consuming Pyromancer's Fury. Lasts 15 seconds.
    Reason: If it is a burst spell, let's make its burst applicable for PVP too. Analogues of such ability already exist in the game - Oracle's Battle Fury and Tempest's Wavelength, and function quite well.
    - Remove Burning Shield and replace it with "active" version of live Fire Shield (same CD).
    Reason: It absorbs so little damage that it will not completely absorb even one usual attack in PVP. It also scales poorly in PVP gear which has much more Endurance than Int/SP.
    - Variant 1:Fusillade duration reduced to 1.5 seconds and CD to 20-30 seconds.
    - Variant 2: Fusillade instantly lauches 3 Fireballs at the enemy. 30 sec CD.

    Reason: This spell is too easy to negate to justify its 1 min CD. It can also become too powerful if Fireball damage will get buffed, so I think its burst should be made weaker, but more frequent.

    Why are you against shorter cast time on Fireball (1-1.5 sec)? It will still keep the "turret" aspect of the spec, but will make it much easier to play and more forgiving.

    If you keep 2 sec cast time, Fireball will need to deal 3+k damage in PVP simply to match damage of spammable abilities of other ranged souls, and it will cause problems with Fusillade balance. Please consider this Kervik and remember that we had a similar spec in 2.0-2.2 - it was so terrible there that almost nobody played it in PVP.
    Last edited by VolsalexR; 07-01-2014 at 10:55 PM.

  5. #20
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    2 sec casting time for our primary bolt is way too long. It won't be playable, either pve or pvp. It will kill the 61 pyromancer. In fact, these 2 sec will kill the soul imho.

    1.5 sec should be the maximum casting time.

  6. #21
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    Accelerant and pyromancers vengeance both need longer durations.

    I know you are against making fireball any faster, but (ignoring the pvp implications) 2 seconds is still pretty long in a raid world, especially when a large portion of the tree either buffs or procs off of that 2 second cast.

    Reducing cast time by 0.5s when you consume a stack would make it a dps gain to cast.

  7. #22
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    2s cast time won't be an issue if we are allowed movement while casting. I know Daglar said he wants to bring back cast times, but he never specified "casting while standing still".

    Allowing movement while casting 2s fireball is not broken - give it a movement speed penalty (20%) and it should be fine. I mean seriously, there are enough interrupts lying around on multiple souls for it to be a non-issue.

    If permanent cast-on-move is too OP, make something like Extinguish:


    Burning Determination (36 points) - Your next 5 fireball casts allow movement. Lasts 20s. Instant. No GCD. 20s cooldown.


    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Accelerant and pyromancers vengeance both need longer durations.
    Last edited by Xallista; 07-02-2014 at 06:16 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xallista View Post
    2s cast time won't be an issue if we are allowed movement while casting. I know Daglar said he wants to bring back cast times, but he never specified "casting while standing still".

    Allowing movement while casting 2s fireball is not broken - give it a movement speed penalty (20%) and it should be fine. I mean seriously, there are enough interrupts lying around on multiple souls for it to be a non-issue.

    If permanent cast-on-move is too OP, make something like Extinguish:


    Burning Determination (36 points) - Your next 5 fireball casts allow movement. Lasts 20s. Instant. No GCD. 20s cooldown.


    Also:
    extinguish (or instand fireballs) didnt help pyro because it made it a fake mobile spec. current pyro is considered a mobile spec but in reality its the worst range spec in game when it comes to mobility.

    since we already have a great, mobile spec called warlock, we not need another one. it is much better to sacrifice mobility for superior dps.

    having 2s or 1.5s casted fireballs may be arguable but instant ones not. i think kervik already said it.

  9. #24
    Shield of Telara Wilkoss's Avatar
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    I have a crazy idea that might just work.

    What if Ignition were to be moved further up the tree and instead we get a Tier 1 ability called Pyromancers Awareness. Casting a fire based skill increases your intelligence by 5/10/15/20/25%. Does not stack with Natural Awareness.

    Not only does this give us a nice buff when playing 61 Pyro, it would buff Pyrochon to current levels after the changes, but most importantly it would be a nice buff for 61 Harbinger (8 Pyro instead of 8 Chloro, or 13 Pyro, 2 Ele maybe). It might even give Warlock a little boost too depending on if you could keep up the proc without too much hassle.

    Thoughts?


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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkoss View Post
    I have a crazy idea that might just work.

    What if Ignition were to be moved further up the tree and instead we get a Tier 1 ability called Pyromancers Awareness. Casting a fire based skill increases your intelligence by 5/10/15/20/25%. Does not stack with Natural Awareness.

    Not only does this give us a nice buff when playing 61 Pyro, it would buff Pyrochon to current levels after the changes, but most importantly it would be a nice buff for 61 Harbinger (8 Pyro instead of 8 Chloro, or 13 Pyro, 2 Ele maybe). It might even give Warlock a little boost too depending on if you could keep up the proc without too much hassle.

    Thoughts?
    since when is harb or warlock using fire based skills? only those let it proc....

  11. #26
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    Fireball should definitely be castable on the move. Standing still for 2 sec in WFs to cast just rarely happens. We die quick enough as it is without hollering out "fresh meat" too. I will toss the instants but otherwise fireball is way way down on the list of what I use.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    extinguish (or instand fireballs) didnt help pyro because it made it a fake mobile spec. current pyro is considered a mobile spec but in reality its the worst range spec in game when it comes to mobility.

    since we already have a great, mobile spec called warlock, we not need another one. it is much better to sacrifice mobility for superior dps.

    having 2s or 1.5s casted fireballs may be arguable but instant ones not. i think kervik already said it.
    Couldnt agree with this more, being able to cast fireball while moving, how much easier do people want them to make the spec? i understand the want for pvp viability, but moving while hard casting, naaah, we already have fusilade changing to be allowed to channel while moving,

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    since when is harb or warlock using fire based skills? only those let it proc....
    In Harb you would use Fireball instead of Vile Spores as your main Eldrich proc consumer which would keep a good uptime on the buff.

    As I mentioned, Warlock would be harder and would need some thought. It's not meant to be a Lock buff but might inadvertently be a small boost.


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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmarz View Post
    Couldnt agree with this more, being able to cast fireball while moving, how much easier do people want them to make the spec? i understand the want for pvp viability, but moving while hard casting, naaah, we already have fusilade changing to be allowed to channel while moving,
    I think the mobile fusillade cast was unnecessary, it's a cooldown, part of cooldowns is choosing the right time to use them. The need to be immobile 60% or more of the time just to do your basic rotation is crippling in both pve and pvp. Current raid boss design doesn't allow a turret spec to shine, pyrochon only gets away with it by virtue of 1.5s or less cast times, and being a support spec.

    Other than kaliban in GA, I can't think of a boss fight that wouldn't cause the new pyro to suck.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirxe View Post
    extinguish (or instand fireballs) didnt help pyro because it made it a fake mobile spec. current pyro is considered a mobile spec but in reality its the worst range spec in game when it comes to mobility.

    since we already have a great, mobile spec called warlock, we not need another one. it is much better to sacrifice mobility for superior dps.

    having 2s or 1.5s casted fireballs may be arguable but instant ones not. i think kervik already said it.
    So what do you actually suggest for PVP viability then?

    Uninterruptable would be too OP.
    Instant is a big No-No.

    So what are we left with aside from mobile casting? Superior damage would never fly in PVP by virtue of it being a ranged spec, even with cast times, on top of the whole Melee > Ranged by 5% BS that apparently didn't even help Harbinger much in T3 for the PVE side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmarz View Post
    Couldnt agree with this more, being able to cast fireball while moving, how much easier do people want them to make the spec? i understand the want for pvp viability, but moving while hard casting, naaah, we already have fusilade changing to be allowed to channel while moving,
    Ah yes, because having mobile casting (even with limited use) is "too easy". Because the majority of mage PVPers didn't already reroll to warrior or rogue due to how easy it is to faceroll on one.

    Seriously, you can't even macro this spec the way you can with a rogue [not called Bladedancer), warrior or even ****ing Pyrochon, and somehow limited mobile casting with a 2s cast main spell is making it too easy.

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