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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Pyromancer Update

  1. #121
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    They were done to address issues in PvP that were misidentified, and which have long since evaporated. The only real issue was that Pyro alone had no 35m range increase and that Marksman was OP, so everyone was playing it and throwing Deaden around constantly. Back then PvP was completely dominated by ranged specs so everyone wanted to move towards homogeneity, and Pyro and Inq lost almost all of their immobility in favour of utility and lower damage to bring it "in line" with Marksman.

    It was the wrong direction and it's being corrected, as I see it.

  2. #122
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    Well I wouldn't say it was the wrong direction. At the time those changes occurred it made sense. Weakening deadening was done through providing Pyro more instants, and giving it more mobility helped it to deal with Melee gap closers. Not that it really did much since melee mobility in general is pretty insane.

    I am concerned that Pyro is going back to turret style since those issues have not really been addressed, and the Rogue forums already have mutterings of getting MM DPS buffed.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  3. #123
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    The range of Warlord pulls was already nerfed, as was Paralord's double-sprint. Melee got hit harder by the debilitate change as well because the game had more silences than disarms. Debilitating Poison is already on the chopping block.

    I will never concede that when conditions become nonconducive to a defining gameplay style that the proper course is to eliminate that gameplay entirely. The proper response then was nerfs, as it is now. Thankfully the devs have escaped the "always buff, never nerf" trap.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 06-10-2014 at 03:28 PM.

  4. #124
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    I'd love to know what aspect of needing to be able to cast instant fireballs was 'misidentified' in pvp. In a 1v1, you will never, ever, ever be able to land a fireball against a melee unless you stun him first. LoSing by running through a target is brainlessly easy especially with a super long 2s cast time. If you don't change fireball to only require LoS to begin the cast, and not finish the cast then a pyro will be doomed versus any melee class regardless of gear. I don't care if Fireball dealt a million damage, if you can't hit someone with it then it's useless.

    As for your comment about losing mobility equaling an increase in dps thanks to being more turret oriented, this may be trueish in pve, but once again in pvp this is not necessarily the case. In pvp it is only true if your target is also turreted down and stays within your nuking range. However as soon as someone becomes focused, their natural instinct is to move enough to get out of danger. If you are turreted, and they move, then you have no viable options to provide chase with. I'd love to see you try to burst down a healer as he attempts to LoS you, or flees deeper and deeper behind enemy lines.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    I'd love to know what aspect of needing to be able to cast instant fireballs was 'misidentified' in pvp.
    The same kind that leads you to believe that synthesis is useless in PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    In a 1v1, you will never, ever, ever be able to land a fireball against a melee unless you stun him first. LoSing by running through a target is brainlessly easy especially with a super long 2s cast time.
    Turn...around...
    For someone with such an old account, how on earth did you PvP back when Pyro had 2s long fireballs?
    As for the rest of your statement...um...CC.
    That is what it is there for, to control your opponent.

    Vexare, given the numerous statements you have been making recently, I am wondering how good you are in PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    The same kind that leads you to believe that synthesis is useless in PvP.
    Synthesis is only useful in pvp for healing up a tank, duo capping a flag, or someone you know will be focused on for prolonged periods of time. As a general rule, it is much more efficient to use ST blast heals to recover someone. By the time you notice someone being focus targeted, waste 1.5 seconds consistently swapping your synth around, and finally start healing, chances are they will be dead or on the brink.


    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    Turn...around...
    For someone with such an old account, how on earth did you PvP back when Pyro had 2s long fireballs?
    As for the rest of your statement...um...CC.
    That is what it is there for, to control your opponent.

    Vexare, given the numerous statements you have been making recently, I am wondering how good you are in PvP.
    Gee, turn around... what a novel concept!!! Yer so smurt! Except running forward .01 meters happens much faster than spinning 180 degrees.

  7. #127
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    I really don't think that turret specs will work as well as they did before SL because the effectiveness of kiting has pretty much disappeared.

    - Nearly all gap closers either have a higher range than Flicker, a lower cool down or more commonly, they have both.
    - Pulls were practically non-existent before SL and still have the same range as flicker.
    - Nearly all melee specs can still attack from range with >50% of their DPS (even full dps for some) while they wait for their gap closers to come off CD. This didn't happen in vanilla rift.

    I think some of you are forgetting how much easier melee has become.
    Last edited by Tookmyjob; 06-10-2014 at 04:20 PM.

  8. #128
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    Gee, turn around... what a novel concept!!! Yer so smurt! Except running forward .01 meters happens much faster than spinning 180 degrees.
    Turn up your mouse sensitivity?
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    Synthesis is only useful in pvp for healing up a tank,
    You should never be a tank in PvP unless you are absolutely intent on protecting a flag.
    In which case, you'd be better off as a healer or DPS for actually capturing that flag in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    duo capping a flag,
    If you are merely duo capping there wasn't anyone to properly defend the flag in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    or someone you know will be focused on for prolonged periods of time.
    Yeah...that is the point of synthesis. To provide focused healing for someone who is being focused down.
    Your previous post in the past was where you stated explicit;y there is no point to using synthesis in pvP.

    I am glad that you realized that an ability that is intended for FOCUSED healing is designed for countering FOCUSED damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    As a general rule, it is much more efficient to use ST blast heals to recover someone.
    By the time you notice someone being focus targeted, waste 1.5 seconds consistently swapping your synth around, and finally start healing, chances are they will be dead or on the brink.
    No wonder you think Synthesis is useless in PvP, you cannot play a Chloromancer properly to save their life. Not surprising because you've rarely played Chloro in any WF, and the times you do, you run around with LGV almost entirely.

    You should never be popping you Bloom/Essence surge on anyone to recover minor health, and in the event the individual is being focus targeted you would apply synth to them which is well, the point of synth.

    PvP is all about burst damage, Synthesis is one of the best ways to counter it because that is the only kind of damage that will kill you. Anything else such as AoE damage is countered simply through RS/splash healing.

    On top of this, Synthesis enables stronger usage of Symbiosis. So in the event you need to rapidly heal another target, you apply symbiosis to that target and save your burst heals for a third target as necessary.

    If you are rarely using Synthesis in PvP, there are only two scenarios present.

    1. You are playing the spec incorrectly in PvP.
    2. The team is bad and is not focusing targets.

    Regardless, you should always have synthesis up on a priority target; like a healer; since it enables you to make use of your flexibility and Symbiosis' gameplay.

    Chloromancer is an excellent healer in PvP, its slow on the switch yes, but by no means does it not have any methods of trying to get around it.
    If anything, the reason you don't see Chloromancers in organized 5s' is due to the lack of self survivability.
    Its much easier to smash a Chloromancer then the secondary healer, than it is to smash two healers capable of self healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    Gee, turn around... what a novel concept!!! Yer so smurt! Except running forward .01 meters happens much faster than spinning 180 degrees.
    Turn up your mouse sensitivity or stop keyboard turning.
    Alternatively you can stop discussing PvP because you clearly are not very good at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  10. #130
    Plane Touched zasen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    The range of Warlord pulls was already nerfed, as was Paralord's double-sprint. Melee got hit harder by the debilitate change as well because the game had more silences than disarms. Debilitating Poison is already on the chopping block.

    I will never concede that when conditions become nonconducive to a defining gameplay style that the proper course is to eliminate that gameplay entirely. The proper response then was nerfs, as it is now. Thankfully the devs have escaped the "always buff, never nerf" trap.
    i believe warlord pulls are still a zero point skill on an 8s cd.

    20m is still pretty good considering flicker is 15m per 20s. and since now we have to turret i dont see what we've gained. all im seeing is that mages are gonna have to facetank more.

    now what im really insterested in seeing is will these changes allow pyros to kill sins or warlord. if not then i dont see the point from a pvp point of view. sure as hell cant kill them now if of equal gear and skill. if all the mobility is the reason we dont hit hard, which i dont think is true, unless its a warlord or sin that just popped out of stealth, then how much harder is pyro gonna hit. and if it does how long until it gets nerfed? big hit specs dont last very long

    now before anyone jumps down my throat about melee vs range. pyro is our pvp soul, harb outside of its big cd is not gonna beat those specs, i mean when's the last time anyone here has even seen a harb in pvp, althought i;d still prefer that over all the eles i keep seeing.

  11. #131
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is gonna be the rotation priority I'm guessing:

    1. Cast Fireball if at 5 stacks
    2. Maintain Improved Flame Bolt
    3. Maintain Countdown
    4. Cast "fillers" that have more dps contribution than a buffed Fireball
    5. Cast Fireball at 1+ stacks
    6. Cast "fillers" that have less dps contribution than a buffed Fireball

    You have your CD>Searing Bolt>CD, IC before big hitters, and get as many stacks before fusillade and Heatwave as possible thing too. I can't judge it's difficulty fully but it seems much easier than the live version. We'll see once it hits PTS though.
    Last edited by CowGoesMoo; 06-10-2014 at 05:17 PM.
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  12. #132
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    I don't know I kinda like the current Pyro gameplay but that's on me.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    I don't know I kinda like the current Pyro gameplay but that's on me.
    It works pretty well, it just needs a bit more survivability. The fact that is it fairly poor in PvE is a good thing since it can be tinkered with without affecting raiders. 51 pyro was terrible in PvE before SL too.

  14. #134
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    Spoiler!
    Last edited by vexare; 06-10-2014 at 05:54 PM.

  15. #135
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    Default You stole my spoiler shtig.

    Spoiler!
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

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